12 week accelerated Paramedic Program!!??

CMCSNRP

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I would like to squash the rumors

McCook Community College Accelerated Paramedic Program is a comprehensive entity. Kathy Dernovich, the program director and Bob Molcyk, lead instructor take what they do very seriously. I CAN ACTUALLY GIVE AN OPINION BECAUSE I WENT THERE. Now, I understand that everyone who went through a traditional program believes that you can't do it in 12 weeks blah blah blah. Whatever, guys and gals that was just the classroom portion. To complete the required contact hours you end up spending at or over 800hrs in the field on average. Not to mention that being an accelerated program the ones without the aptitude wash out early. Stop bashing this school please. I finished and I am a NRP with a level 1 T.C.
 

Medic Tim

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These programs traditionally turn out protocol monkeys and teach providers to pass a test as opposed to being a paramedic. ( generalization) The educational standards across the board are already far too low and seeing programs like this makes me shake my head.
Yes you can do it in that time frame and I am sure there will be good and bad medics from it ( like any program) it just frustrates me that we push for respect and to be medical professionals yet we still cling to to short cuts and doing the bare minimum.
 

CMCSNRP

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@Medic Tim
I understand what you are trying to say and I fully understand your frustration. However, everyone from my class had experience in the field, and most of us had a military background. When I took the program I had a total of six years both in the field and hospital setting and had worked as a telemetry technician. Like I said the program is not for everyone but we didn't do the bare minimum either. I have witnessed the result of two year programs vs McCook and I can tell you wholeheartedly that these people have it together. That is not to say that every medic they turn out will be exemplary but who am I to judge. I can gaurantee 100% that they did not teach us to pass a test, nor did they require the bare minimum. We took the same number of credit hours as everyone else and practiced skills every day for 12 weeks. It was a rigorous program with talented instructors and determined students.
 

Christopher

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@Medic Tim
I understand what you are trying to say and I fully understand your frustration. However, everyone from my class had experience in the field, and most of us had a military background. When I took the program I had a total of six years both in the field and hospital setting and had worked as a telemetry technician. Like I said the program is not for everyone but we didn't do the bare minimum either. I have witnessed the result of two year programs vs McCook and I can tell you wholeheartedly that these people have it together. That is not to say that every medic they turn out will be exemplary but who am I to judge. I can gaurantee 100% that they did not teach us to pass a test, nor did they require the bare minimum. We took the same number of credit hours as everyone else and practiced skills every day for 12 weeks. It was a rigorous program with talented instructors and determined students.
I hope you'll come to the same realization that many of us have had, that the certificate style education is inadequate for the responsibility expected from and entrusted to a US paramedic. The only way to solve this is to dedicate your time to filling in the massive void created by our educational model. Experience alone cannot fill this void.
 

Medic Tim

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I hate the current emphasis on skills and training . yes they are important but should not be the primary focus. What we need is real education. We are one of the last "medical fields" to not require degrees . We can and should learn from nursing. It wasn't too long ago they were in a similar situation.
 
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jimmylesaint

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I still hold the same belief CMCSNRP has that the course is perfect, mainly for people who have previous knowledge/experience in a medical field.
I hate the current emphasis on skills and training . yes they are important but should not be the primary focus. What we need is real education. We are one of the last "medical fields" to not require degrees . We can and should learn from nursing. It wasn't too long ago they were in a similar situation.
Perhaps Medic Tim you can describe what "real education" means to you?

Remember how things have change, times have changed, knowledge has been democratised- you could google intubation and learn the theory. Technology has advanced in mobile phones/computers and whatever you want to know and apply is on line.
Traditional university is for 18yr olds who have little or no experience, where 3-4 year degrees are designed to allow the youngster to mature and develop whilst learning. In reality a 3yr Physio degree could be done in 1-1.5 years full time.
Look at Medicine- the traditional time was 6yrs university- now if you have a degree(in anything- a friend is studying Medicine in Southampton-his past degree- Computer science) The medical degree is 4yrs long- is ths "real education?"
I can tell you my father is a MD and can diagnose you as you walk in the door. My Mother an MD-she studied hard and passed exams yet uses elimination to get to a diagnosis. Both qualified both different personal traits- both at the end of their working life and both disgusted at the education they received and that continues to be fed to MDs. Both using "integrative" medicine using Niacin for patients and getting exceptional results with no side effects as opposed to billion dollar statins. High dose vitamins, prescribing natural progesterone(not the patentable fake progesterone) for women instead of ripping out their wombs!
When it comes to cancer- "real education" says napalm it and your whole body with chemotherapy then destroy whats left with radiation.(I guess Nixon Declaring War on Cancer during the Vietnam war had something to do with this barbaric "treatment"!?) 95% of people who go on chemotherapy are dead within 5yrs.
Western emergency medicine is exceptionally good. What i am getting at is "real education" in my view has a lot to answer for.
Mature students who are dedicated and determined to continue or change their career can and will go through these shorter, more intense courses and be just as good or better than a 3yr uni course graduate.
 

chaz90

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Oh boy. I don't really know where to start in response to this post, so I'll lead off with the easiest target. Are you trying to suggest some nebulous integrative medicine is going to be better to treat cancer vs. chemo and radiation?
 

BoonDoc

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I hate the current emphasis on skills and training . yes they are important but should not be the primary focus. What we need is real education. We are one of the last "medical fields" to not require degrees . We can and should learn from nursing. It wasn't too long ago they were in a similar situation.
I completely agree, mate. Paramedics should have a fundamental understanding of the biochemistry and medicine behind the skills.

BUT

Academia is not the answer.

Here in Ireland and the UK they have moved to the university degree system. In Ireland the "Paramedic" training is 16 weeks. The "Paramedics" cannot cannulate, intubate or do ACLS drugs.
Ireland, in her incredible forethought, is aware that more training is needed. So they are now making the "Paramedic" a four year degree course. There is no additional skills, little additional training but at least they will have a four year BSc degree.

This is not the answer. How much additional padding courses will these students have to take in order to increase a 16 week course into 4 years?

Let's take a look at the UK system. Up until five years ago you can make a paramedic in as little as two years. You start with the Ambulance Technician (EMT) and work for a few years before you upskill to the IHCD Paramedic. The whole process was about two years of training spread out over five years. It made for spectacular medics with a deep understanding of their skills and training.

Now that is gone.

UK has a mandatory BSc in Paramedicine coming. Only BSc Paramedics will get registered. That is a three year programme. We have paramedics working after this academic degree who can write research papers about ethics but cannot get a BP or talk to a patient. They are too young and have no understanding of skills.



Look, there are two sides to paramedic training. Skills and Clinical Knowledge. One must have both. Both sets of training need didactic and experiential work.
Adding a bunch of university courses that do not build on skills or clinical understanding are not the answer.


Read behind the lines. Universities are doing this for money. Here in Ireland the universities are jumping for joy knowing that they have a student for four years and all they they need to teach them is 16 week of skills training.


What is the best way forward?
 

jimmylesaint

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Boon doc has the crux of the matter- money.
Are you trying to suggest some nebulous integrative medicine is going to be better to treat cancer vs. chemo and radiation?
It's not going to be IT IS. Though this is not the right forum i'll be brief-50% of Americans will get cancer most will die from chemo/radiationn treatment as well as have bits chopped off. Integrative medicine(so named to get the alternative treatment passed the Pharmaceuticals) or orthomolecular medicine is the way to go for treatment. I have seen it work- on many breast cancers. Recently a glioblastoma in a 14 yr old girl, complete remission within 2 weeks-GB being particularly aggressive and difficult to treat.
Jimmy
Oh and the side effects of alternative treatment-- good health.:rolleyes:
 

chaz90

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Boon doc has the crux of the matter- money.
Are you trying to suggest some nebulous integrative medicine is going to be better to treat cancer vs. chemo and radiation?
It's not going to be IT IS. Though this is not the right forum i'll be brief-50% of Americans will get cancer most will die from chemo/radiationn treatment as well as have bits chopped off. Integrative medicine(so named to get the alternative treatment passed the Pharmaceuticals) or orthomolecular medicine is the way to go for treatment. I have seen it work- on many breast cancers. Recently a glioblastoma in a 14 yr old girl, complete remission within 2 weeks-GB being particularly aggressive and difficult to treat.
Jimmy
Oh and the side effects of alternative treatment-- good health.:rolleyes:
Dear lord. Can we split this off into a new thread? I don't want to completely derail this one with the amount of debunking that is about to happen.

Also, I have some snake oil I'd like to sell you. It corrects unfortunate imbalances in the human body from modern society's sadly snake oil deficient diet.
 
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triemal04

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Look, there are two sides to paramedic training. Skills and Clinical Knowledge. One must have both. Both sets of training need didactic and experiential work.
Adding a bunch of university courses that do not build on skills or clinical understanding are not the answer.
Absolutely. And if the amount of clinical hours did not increase proportionally to the increase in didactic hours then that is a problem.

Part of why extending the educational process would be beneficial is because, if done properly, it would allow for a real exposure to clinical medicine in the hospital, and an internship that had an appropriate number of hours.

If the process takes 3+ years, by all rights quite a bit of that should involve hands-on education, and not classroom time.
 

jimmylesaint

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Sure - lets start a new thread. Perhaps you'll learn something provided you have the ability to think for yourself and not just be a parrot.
The snake oil argument is an old one and you really need to up your game-in fact the snake oil is a reverse argument- Remembering.....
The Medical Profession/Pharmaceuticals loved to
"bleed" people who had headaches:produced snake oils:
Thalidomide
Thimerasol
Dextropropoxyphene
Thorazine
Miltown
Vioxx
Dexedrine
(i could go on and on with the snake oils that have killed and maimed the elderly, young,women, men and unborns!)
Why does the Homeland Security Bill prevent lawsuits against the pharmaceuticals?Followed by the Anti-terrorism bill?
Also, I have some snake oil I'd like to sell you. lol no thanks mate. I'll stick with orthomolecular medicine.
 

jrm818

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Sure - lets start a new thread. Perhaps you'll learn something provided you have the ability to think for yourself and not just be a parrot.
The snake oil argument is an old one and you really need to up your game-in fact the snake oil is a reverse argument- Remembering.....
The Medical Profession/Pharmaceuticals loved to
"bleed" people who had headaches:produced snake oils:
Thalidomide
Thimerasol
Dextropropoxyphene
Thorazine
Miltown
Vioxx
Dexedrine
(i could go on and on with the snake oils that have killed and maimed the elderly, young,women, men and unborns!)
Why does the Homeland Security Bill prevent lawsuits against the pharmaceuticals?Followed by the Anti-terrorism bill?
Also, I have some snake oil I'd like to sell you. lol no thanks mate. I'll stick with orthomolecular medicine.
so, to review, your argument is that we should abandon tested medical therapies since testing has uncovered unexpected side effects of several treatments and led to their abandonment?

do you see a problem with that logic? if you claim "science based pharmaceuticals bad", it is poor form to use side effects demonstrated by science as the warrant for abandoning said science.

Or is the claim that those who profit off pharmaceuticals are untrustworthy (in fairness, often true) but that those who profit off "alternative medicine" are for some reason immune to profit-motivation?
 

jimmylesaint

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so, to review, your argument is that we should abandon tested medical therapies since testing has uncovered unexpected side effects of several treatments and led to their abandonment?
The testing stage should prevent it from causing too much harm in the first place but this is more accurate in what i am saying Or is the claim that those who profit off pharmaceuticals are untrustworthy (in fairness, often true) but that those who profit off "alternative medicine" are for some reason immune to profit-motivation?
Yes you are right the profits come before the patient- there are probably a dozen drugs in circulation now that shouldn't be but are because money comes first- most of the banned drugs are shipped off to developing countries and profit gleaned from there.
So yes we should in most instances, not all, abandon "tested" medical therapies as by their profitable nature they are designed to be repeated prescriptions. Chronic disease is a lifetime of profit margin!! The drugs treat the symptoms and not the problem, because to treat the problem is not profitable. Then there are the medical lies- cholesterol causes heart disease or is a factor in causing heart disease and boom Atorvastatin pops up making around $15b a year profit! Like really, MD's(after all their training-perhaps it's so long to get brainwashed) believe that our bodies are lacking a completely synthetic drug that stops a natural substance cholesterol from being produced!!!??? This synthetic Atorvastatin incidentally comes with side effects which luckily are mainly not serious but when they happen, more drugs are ready to help? Brilliant business plan huh.? Of course real(alternative) medicine would simply advocate Niacin, a natural substance found in the body and one that would be deficient AND works better than any statin, with the side effect of....good health. But Niacin is not patentable

do you see a problem with that logic? if you claim "science based pharmaceuticals bad", it is poor form to use side effects demonstrated by science as the warrant for abandoning said science. I'm demonstrating that it is poor form for the established medical profession to call alternative, integrative therapies/medicine snake oil medicine when in fact they have the history of producing the snake oils.
Boon Doc??? Not sure what to make of your comment????Though i'd say western medicine is a substance that is synthetic to the body.
Don't get me wrong Western medicine and some drugs have a very important place in our society- e.g Accident and Emergency where drugs and their fast acting ability save lives. However also consider these powerful drugs in the Emergency room
Sodium Bicarbonate-used in cardiac arrest and severe asthma
Vitamin E-burns
Selenium-protects against reperfusion ans MI
Magnesium-treat atrial fibrillation(sulphate)
Vitamin C- treats everything(particularly mushroom poisoning in the emergency room)
Do i think alternative medicine are motivated by profit- yes of course one has to in order to be sustainable- their primary motivation is curing whilst "doing no harm" Many you will find are the old doctors who have done a lifetime of prescribing the wrong drugs, seeing many cancer patients dying from chemo/radiation than the actual disease.
 

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