Paramedic Shortages

[VentMonkey]

That would qualify as a systematic error. Not to be overly idealistic, but there are companies that practice meritocracy; they're few, but they're there. So in a sense, the exceptions prove the rule. Have some faith, brother

Perhaps your post should be redirected towards those that really need to hear this.

You're preaching to the choir, here, cheers.

 

[Qulevrius]

Nah, they never listen. Just let me enjoy this little circlejerk.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

I'm not moving on, yet.... I like parts of the job also. I can also speculate many reasons why there may be a shortage though

 

[TransportJockey]

Most of the third service providers aroind here are at least a little understaffed. I know we are understaffed by about 15 people right now (and if medics applied, we woild hire medics for every spot)

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[EpiEMS]

I'd be curious to hear if the demand for ALS providers has increased nationally versus the demand for all EMS providers.

 

[NomadicMedic]

I'd be curious to hear if the demand for ALS providers has increased nationally versus the demand for all EMS providers.

Seems like it would. EMT is an entry level 10 week class. There's always more than enough EMTs to go around, but finding qualified, competent ALS providers is another story. We have plenty of applicants, but many of them prove to be poor employeess or lacking in skills or experience.

 

[VentMonkey]

finding qualified, competent ALS providers is another story. We have pleanty of applicants, but many of them prove to be poor employeess or lacking in skills or experience.

 

[EpiEMS]

Seems like it would. EMT is an entry level 10 week class. There's always more than enough EMTs to go around, but finding qualified, competent ALS providers is another story. We have pleanty of applicants, but many of them prove to be poor employeess or lacking in skills or experience.

I don't disagree at all, I think that makes sense.

I guess my question is: where are there shortages? I don't see them in the Northeast, at least. If there truly were shortages, we would probably be seeing more increases in wages as folks try to attract providers.

 

[VentMonkey]

I don't disagree at all, I think that makes sense.

If there truly were shortages, we would probably be seeing more increases in wages as folks try to attract providers.

I think they're all over parts of the country, sporadically.

As far as the increase in wages, this is a long the same lines, but perhaps left for a different thread (which, IIRC is quite the touchy subject on here).

As others have mentioned, and even where I am, places are offering sign-on bonuses, relocation bonuses, both, and other angles as recruitment strategies.The problem, as always, is turnover/ longevity.

I did find it interesting @TransportJockey mentioned shortages even with many of the third services in Texas. Even the systems in Delaware seem to hire on a frequent basis.

Maybe the stats to look into would be the average length of a (single-role) paramedic, and why.

 

[NysEms2117]

Albany county is short on everybody. EMT's, AEMT's, and Paramedics. Idk if this helps or hurts anybody's argument lol.

 

[EpiEMS]

I think they're all over parts of the country, sporadically.

As far as the increase in wages, this is a long the same lines, but perhaps left for a different thread (which, IIRC is quite the touchy subject on here).

As others have mentioned, and even where I am, places are offering sign-on bonuses, relocation bonuses, both, and other angles as recruitment strategies.The problem, as always, is turnover/ longevity.

I did find it interesting @TransportJockey mentioned shortages even with many of the third services in Texas. Even the systems in Delaware seem to hire on a frequent basis.

Maybe the stats to look into would be the average length of a (single-role) paramedic, and why.

I think your points are well founded. Part of the issue is a lack of interstate mobility, for one. I tend to think of the labor market for healthcare occupations as one where there is generally a good degree of flexibility - but less so for EMS providers.

Some data on the workforce is here, in the "EMS Workforce for the 21st Century: A National Assessment" report (albeit from 2008). Also, a turnover study from PHEC is here: "
The longitudinal study of turnover and the cost of turnover in EMS." Briefly, they calculate turnover rates at 10.2% for paid agencies. That's pretty high, in my mind - but I am not sure if it is really that much higher (or, indeed, if it is higher) than other healthcare occupations. I'd bet it's higher than your average public safety occupation (with a union and pension), though.

 

[VentMonkey]

I think your points are well founded. Part of the issue is a lack of interstate mobility, for one. I tend to think of the labor market for healthcare occupations as one where there is generally a good degree of flexibility - but less so for EMS providers.

Some data on the workforce is here, in the "EMS Workforce for the 21st Century: A National Assessment" report (albeit from 2008). Also, a turnover study from PHEC is here: "
The longitudinal study of turnover and the cost of turnover in EMS." Briefly, they calculate turnover rates at 10.2% for paid agencies. That's pretty high, in my mind - but I am not sure if it is really that much higher (or, indeed, if it is higher) than other healthcare occupations. I'd bet it's higher than your average public safety occupation (with a union and pension), though.

By chance, are you majoring in statistics??

 

[Bullets]

The qualified part is another ballgame. There are always medics looking for jobs here, but we can't afford to hire brand new people where I work and we also need people that have some interest in doing more than just running calls.

On the other coin, we need management who wants to do more than just run calls. Ive been pushing to get home visits off the ground and its happened in limited occurrences with a handful of other providers, but our management says "Home visits dont make money, we can bill for that" and other Providers are more than happy to sit on the couch and watch TV for 12 hours. Its difficult to motivate them and make them understand why preemptive care is better for us

Private ambulance pay and hours are not typically very good. As a paramedic with a bachelors degree and most of the pre-recs for PA school, whats going to keep me in EMS; or my friend with an AAS and all the pre-rec's for RN school? We both have over 10 years on the job and were not alone. By staying in EMS we lose tens of thousands of dollars per year, work awful hours, miss most holidays, have no pension, are exposed to infectious diseases, heavy lifting, and road hazards daily. Some of these factors could be why there is a paramedic shortage in some areas and why we often lose many of our most qualified personal

My whole purpose of going to medic school was to gain enough clinical experience to apply to the two PA schools in my state. i know there is no future as just a paramedic, but as a PA and a paramedic, i will have the needed postnomials (because thats what its all about, apparently) to become a manger in a system that is all the things we pine for here

 

[VentMonkey]

On the other coin, we need management who wants to do more than just run calls. Ive been pushing to get home visits off the ground and its happened in limited occurrences with a handful of other providers, but our management says "Home visits dont make money, we can bill for that" and other Providers are more than happy to sit on the couch and watch TV for 12 hours. Its difficult to motivate them and make them understand why preemptive care is better for us

@Bullets, I hear you loud and clear on this one. And you bring a vaild point to this topic. Management and culture certainly would wear on any employee seeking to better serve their population.

And I also agree with your pitch to management, and 100% understand how frustrating it can be to try and motivate others around you.

i know there is no future as just a paramedic

This I am curious. As a whole this seems to be the thought process of many paramedics, both old and new.

My question simply is, why is there no future as just a paramedic?

 

[OREMT]

There does not seem to be a shortage of paramedics where I live in Oregon, though I can't speak to the number of "qualified and ready" paramedics. Right now I'm working on my pre-reqs for medic school and I've been keeping my eye on who's hiring and how often so that I can be prepared for the job market when I do get my EMT-P. That said, I see very few jobs open for paramedics. For one thing, the city I live in has a fire-based 911 service, and the firefighter/paramedic positions are highly competitive. People keep graduating from medic school though, so at least here it seems as though there is a much greater supply of medics than the demand for them.

I want to be a career paramedic, but I've got bills to pay and I'm starting to worry if I'll be able to find a job after medic school. On the other hand, I could put my time into a nursing program and be able to land a good-paying job just about anywhere, AND I won't have to prove myself as a firefighter to do so. I think the reality of this may be, in some cases, why there is greater turnover and less commitment to being a career paramedic.

 

[Qulevrius]

I want to be a career paramedic, but I've got bills to pay and I'm starting to worry if I'll be able to find a job after medic school. On the other hand, I could put my time into a nursing program and be able to land a good-paying job just about anywhere, AND I won't have to prove myself as a firefighter to do so.

^ This. Urban paramedics in major cities = either go fire or be a gurney jockey for FD, pay sucks, limited vacancies, no career growth, castrated SoP. Rural paramedics = more vacancies, mostly non-fire, often good pay, some career growth, much better SoP. So the trade-off is living a good life in the boonies vs being miserable in a city. On the other hand, as a RN/PA + bridge to medic, the main source of income is compatible with any setting, and being a medic is an added bonus. Those who want to remain stationary will maintain their medic card as a retreat from their day jobs, and those who want to stay in EMS will eventually go CC or flight.

 

[VentMonkey]

Those who want to remain stationary will maintain their medic card as a retreat from their day jobs

Would this be the same group of individuals first to gripe about how they deserve higher wages, yet lack the self-motivation, and gumption to pursue higher education in their respective field, be it advanced certs, a degree(s), an additional license, or all of the above?

I mean after all, just showing up to work day in and day out with no drive whatsoever is complete, and total means for advancement, and reflects the attitude of someone deserving of being called a professional who indeed, is very much deserving of a wage increase.

 

[Qulevrius]

Would this be the same group of individuals first to gripe about how they deserve higher wages, yet lack the self-motivation, and gumption to pursue higher education in their respective field, be it advanced certs, a degree(s), an additional license, or all of the above?

I mean after all, just showing up to work day in and day out with no drive whatsoever is complete, and total means for advancement, and reflects the attitude of someone deserving of being called a professional who indeed, is very much deserving of a wage increase.

Different blokes, different strokes.

 

[Lo2w]

We went from not hiring very many medics per year to hiring every couple of months. Right now we are hiring for paramedics badly. We are now offering a 10K sign on bonus, company will pay for medic school, and new medics are actually able to negotiate higher wages due to the shortage.

Out here it is all public services that are hurting. Fire departments and police departments are really hurting and even the local hospitals are offering incentives due to shortages.

Where is here and how is reciprocity? I'm finishing my EMT in December (National Registry) and am in a place I can pack and go anywhere.

 

[DrParasite]

I would wager my salary that there isn't a paramedic shortage anywhere in the US....What you are seeing is a shortage of people who want to work for low wages, poor conditions, where they are treated like crap and as disposable employees.

If you offering a 10K signing bonus for paramedics, but only paying them 12 an hour, is it any surprise you don't have many applicants?

If your paramedics need to work 60-80 hour weeks to put food on the table, or send their kids to college, or afford to live within 30 minutes of where they work, is it any surprise you don't have many applicants.

If your paramedics are going on 15 calls in 12 hours, many of which aren't even ALS level calls, and are posted on a street corner, is it any surprise you don't have many applicants?

I have many friends in the hospitals, and used to work at a Level 1 trauma center.... they had dozens of open positions, and I also knew that many managers wouldn't hire new grads. I know many in EMS who are the same way, especially at better agencies, they want to have worked as an EMT for several years before they will even consider your application. And no on wants you to user their agency as a stepping stone, with the agency spending hours training you, only for you to go elsewhere.

I would wager if EMS agencies provided livable salaries on 40 hour work weeks, gave their personnel advancement opportunities that included not being on the ambulance, and changed EMS from a job to an actual career, and gave people a reason to say (besides getting paid every two weeks) and not look elsewhere, you would find many more applicants, and much fewer vacancies.