NYPD vs FDNY

[jona2125]

Anyone see this. Seemed like a big cluster situation. The two divisions obviously didn't want to work together. Thoughts/opinions?

http://statter911.com/2011/09/03/a-...tion-of-brooklyn-motorcyclist-from-under-car/

 

[bstone]

What is the NYPD doing in the business of rescue? Isn't this solidly delegated to fire?

 

[Shishkabob]

I'm more worried about the darn old bat who gets nothing more than a ticket for running over a motorcyclist due to her stupidity and old-bat-ness.

 

[jona2125]

Yea it's a shame all together. There's no point in dwelling on the things that should have happened. It's better to admit what went wrong, and work on improving it in the future. I really think the rush to get the spreader in was a poor decision. It wasn't very stable when the started lifting and the bags were almost in place. Too much rushing from two different response teams. They were too busy fighting over control and that made the scene unsafe. You have to work together, or else, well exactly what happened here. It's just unfortunate

 

[jona2125]

What is the NYPD doing in the business of rescue? Isn't this solidly delegated to fire?

Well the NYPD have a special ESU (Emergency Service Unit) that responds to these things but because FDNY is more delegated to these incidents naturally it's a huge turf war. You can see what happens in the video how they go back and forth trying to put equipment in place and lift the car. Should have had a designated crew, even better have half and half and let them work together not as individual crews for the same task. It just causes disruption and poor results

 

[DesertMedic66]

Or just have the police worry about their normal job and fire worry about theirs. Imagine how NYPD would feel if FDNY had a "special unit" that would do their jobs. IMO it's a really stupid idea.

 

[Shishkabob]

Or just have the police worry about their normal job and fire worry about theirs. Imagine how NYPD would feel if FDNY had a "special unit" that would do their jobs. IMO it's a really stupid idea.

About as stupid as fire doing extrication in the first place....

 

[bstone]

FDNY should form a special "security response unit" squad, which will be a rapid response to any crime situation. They will have complete authority in the situation.

^That would be insane. Let FDNY do what they do best and let NYPD do what they do best. I saw a video on the OPs linked site where they had detectives talking about rescue situations. That's insane.

 

[Bullets]

Or just have the police worry about their normal job and fire worry about theirs. Imagine how NYPD would feel if FDNY had a "special unit" that would do their jobs. IMO it's a really stupid idea.

PD's job is public safety. EMS and PD has FAR more in common then EMS and Fire do.

Fire is a property protection agency, Police and EMS are public safety agencies

 

[JPINFV]

PD's job is public safety. EMS and PD has FAR more in common then EMS and Fire do.

Fire is a property protection agency, Police and EMS are public safety agencies

EMS is health care and, potentially, public health, not public safety.

 

[DesertMedic66]

About as stupid as fire doing extrication in the first place....

Who should be doing extrication?

 

[DesertMedic66]

PD's job is public safety. EMS and PD has FAR more in common then EMS and Fire do.

Fire is a property protection agency, Police and EMS are public safety agencies

EMS and PD have nothing to do with each other. EMS isn't preventing crimes or stopping crimes or investigating crimes, etc. PD isn't responding to medical calls (in my area) or doing anything EMS does.

The only thing in common is well both wear uniforms (some EMS don't) and both have lights and sirens.

 

[Shishkabob]

who should be doing extrication?

EMS should.

 

[DesertMedic66]

EMS should.

Uhhhh why?

 

[bstone]

100% against EMS doing extraction. FD does that very well. They train for it long and hard.

 

[Shishkabob]

Uhhhh why?

Because extrication is a patient centered ordeal, therefor you should have someone that, you know, has the responsibility of the patient, in charge of it.


I'm not talking swift water rescue, I'm not talking high angle... I'm talking basic extrication. No reason EMS shouldn't, and in fact in a few areas EMS IS the one in charge of basic extrication for that very reason.

They train for it long and hard.

I'm sure ESU trains long and hard for extrication to... so why are you against them doing it? Why would EMS be unable to train for it?




ONLY reason fire got involved in rescue / extrication is the same exact reason they have been getting involved in EMS: To justify their jobs.

 

[bstone]

I'm sure ESU trains long and hard for extrication to... so why are you against them doing it? Why would EMS be unable to train for it?

Clearly they didn't train long and hard. They dropped a car on a guy. FD was taking a long time to properly do it. ERU futzed it up.

 

[DesertMedic66]

100% against EMS doing extraction. FD does that very well. They train for it long and hard.

Same opinion. We don't have any room on the ambulances for any kind of equipment, let alone stairchairs, we don't have any of the protective gear that we would need to keep us safe. Most ambulances only have 2 crew members, so you would need at least 2 ambulances to do extrication. We don't have the training that would be needed.

The list of reasons why EMS shouldn't do extrication keeps going.

 

[Shishkabob]

Clearly they didn't train long and hard. They dropped a car on a guy. FD was taking a long time to properly do it. ERU futzed it up.

Because mistakes never happen on extrication scenes.


On one hand, yes, we do see the video. On the other hand, we do not know the condition of the patient that prompted them to think a quicker way would have been better.


Would you fault crews for doing a rapid extrication of a patient in a time critical situation who became paralyzed after the move?

 

[bstone]

Linuss, this "ERU" is a group that has unknown training, unknown certification and unknown skill. The FD, however, has well known training, well known certification and well known skill.

If I needed someone to pull me from under a car I would want the FD to do it.