Help with A & P

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2nd2nun

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I have enrolled in the upcoming paramedic class and would like to get a jump start on the A & P class. I hear it is really hard. What book do you suggest I get that will help me through it.
 
2nd2nun said:
I have enrolled in the upcoming paramedic class and would like to get a jump start on the A & P class. I hear it is really hard. What book do you suggest I get that will help me through it.
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Human Anatomy & Physiology by Marieb
 
Essentials of Human Anatomy & Physiology, Ninth Edition, by Marieb is the one my class used last year.
 
depends on your goals.

The A&P learning system is enough for all of the healthcare professions outside of medicine.

If real understanding and integration is your goal, get your wallet out because the books will be more than $1000 and it takes considerably more than 1 class that includes only the basics.
 
Marieb A&P 9e

Guyton's Textbook of Medical Physiology
 
When I taught it last year, the college was using the Marieb book. I liked it- it was laid out well for students.

There are TONS of extras that can be bought with it. Gets expensive, really fast.
 
Veneficus said:
depends on your goals.

The A&P learning system is enough for all of the healthcare professions outside of medicine.

If real understanding and integration is your goal, get your wallet out because the books will be more than $1000 and it takes considerably more than 1 class that includes only the basics.
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Yeah, it always amuses me when I hear someone talk about undergraduate A&P and describe it as "really hard". LOL
 
usafmedic45 said:
Yeah, it always amuses me when I hear someone talk about undergraduate A&P and describe it as "really hard". LOL
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Classical human gross anatomy.

You do not pass it, you survive it.
 
usafmedic45 said:
Yeah, it always amuses me when I hear someone talk about undergraduate A&P and describe it as "really hard". LOL
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They sure get stressed by it. There was always lots of crying associated with the students.

Of course, that's sort of what happens when you don't show to your 10am lecture 2/3 days each week and stand around like a useless lump during labs.....
 
For a very simple approach:

Principles of Anatomy & Physiology by Tortora & Grabowski

-- I used this for my first university intro A&P class, and for paramedic school. It's ok. It has the advantage of lots of pretty pictures, and not being overly complex. The disadvantage -- it's not overly complex.

Better books:-

Review of Medical Physiology Ganong (Lange is the publisher) -- it's at a better level, but there's lots of text, and few images. And, of course, it's more focus on physiology, as the title suggests. I used this when I took an honor's introductory physiology class at another university.

Textbook of Medical Physiology - Guyton & Hall.


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But, realistically, you might want to find out which book your medic program is planning on using, and check that out first. It may be Tortora & Grabowski -- this was certainly a popular choice in my area. This books can be expensive. If your book is relatively simple, and you have spare money, Guyton and Ganong are both good books. You can definitely find copies in a library, especially if you're anywhere near a university. Check them out for free!

There's a certain reality that no textbook is really perfect. Once you get beyond a basic level, it's all in the literature anyway. But this isn't as much a concern for paramedic.

Good luck.
 
usafmedic45 said:
Yeah, it always amuses me when I hear someone talk about undergraduate A&P and describe it as "really hard". LOL
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I think it depends on how, and what is taught.

I like to think I'm reasonably intelligent. Perhaps I kid myself. But I've sat in classes with scarey names like "Advanced Topics in Neurophysiology", that have been undergraduate physiology, and have been truly humbled. That particular course was harder than several graduate level CV Physiology course that I've taken.

An introductory physiology course can be as hard as the team of professors teaching it chooses to make it. After all, they have to decide how much, and what is going to be included in the course.

With EMS, sometimes you don't have the luxury of a good teacher (not that that's a given at university either). That can make things a lot harder. Some people just have less academic ability, or battle learning disabilities, or lack the background education. This also makes it harder.

All the best.
 
I think it depends on how, and what is taught.
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I was simply making a comment in regards to the fact that both Veneficus and I have had upper level anatomy education (he's a med student and I was told by a professor that I used to work with that I had to more or less audit a med school anatomy class as part of my employment). In comparison, undergraduate A+P even if taught by the most sadistic professor out there is a joke. For someone with no science or medical background, undergrad A+P can be daunting but it should not be as hard as people make it out to be. Most people who whine about that are poor students and don't want to put the effort into the course. It's just so much easier for them to whine, moan and complain. It's the same reason we see EMT-B courses described as "brutal", "tough" and "demanding" on this forum.
 
usafmedic45 said:
For someone with no science or medical background, undergrad A+P can be daunting but it should not be as hard as people make it out to be..
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I think this exactly describes the issue.

I had to take human gross with dissection both in undergrad and a whole year in our med school, which included not only evolutionary anatomy but embryology as well.

You cannot possibly understand form without function, but the very detailed function is taught in physiology. Which is after biochemistry for a reason.

Before any of that, a host of basic sciences to include biology, general chemistry, physics, organic chemistry, and molecular biology, to name a few.

There is a reason for that. You cannot understand the next step without understanding its base.

Only in EMS education are you expected to take a condensed A&P without any basic science background.

Even worse if it is "part of" paramedic class. There is no way to understand physiologic PH without an understanding of both Arrhenius acid theory and Bronsted-lowry acid base. But paramedic students are just supposed to memorize and regurgitate "normal physiologic PH is 7.35" As if there is only 1 "normal" physiologic PH.

Then you get to electrophysiology with movement of anions and catons without knowledge of diffusion and osmosis and lead it right into tonicity of IV solutions.

It is simply a mess. Required background is not understood, just a collection of facts to memorize. Then the students struggle. Not because the students are not good, but because the idiots teaching them haven't given them what they need to be successful.

Medical education cannot be successfully taught "boot camp" style. We complain endlessly about EMS education, but most in EMS will never take a class other than EMT, maybe a seperate A&P, and paramedic. Most of the instructors are so because of longevity who don't understand the basic science themselves, just regurgitate bullet points on a powerpoint.

There is no other way to say it. Current US EMS education fails its students. Trash in, trash out.

If you demand change, every irgnoramous in the trade (I refuse to call it a profession) takes up arms and your school program is shut down for lack of attendance and 3 medic mills spring up in its place.
 
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I take A&P every 5 years or so as a refresher. I have used both the Martini book and the Marieb book. I prefer the Martini text. It's a little harder to read, it's quite a bit more in depth, and that is why I like it more. I don't really care to have it spoon fed to me and I like to learn something new every time I take the class.

I have noticed something about A&P. The paramedics I know that have taken at least undergrad A&P are often far superior in their assessments and ability to understand what is happening to a patient. They are also better at knowing when the actions they may be taught in paramedic class are not appropriate in all situations. By comparison, the paramedics I know that have never had any A&P outside the text are super dooper cookbook medics. I can't even hold a conversation with those medics, nor do I really want to.

IMHO, this is the absolute most important class a paramedic can take. They can have all the English, Math and Social Sciences in the world but if they do not understand the physiology of the human or know their anatomy, they are going to suck as a medic.

Yes, I am very pro degree. I'm not just pro degree, I'm pro bachelors degree for paramedic. And I know that opinion makes me a total butthead in the eyes of most medics but I really don't care what their opinion is. I care about my medical director, the ER staff, and my boss, in that order.

Make sure you get some A&P workbooks as well. Also, one of those books comes with an interactive physiology disc too. That thing is awesome for helping you grasp some of the difficult physiology.
 
EMS49393 said:
I take A&P every 5 years or so as a refresher. I have used both the Martini book and the Marieb book. I prefer the Martini text. It's a little harder to read, it's quite a bit more in depth, and that is why I like it more. I don't really care to have it spoon fed to me and I like to learn something new every time I take the class.
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Then it is time for you to step up to Clinically oriented anatomy and guyton's physiology and quit fooling around with those basic texts.
 
Veneficus said:
Then it is time for you to step up to Clinically oriented anatomy and guyton's physiology and quit fooling around with those basic texts.
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I'm sure I will be taking a more advanced class in the very near future as I have decided to do a dual degree in history and a science that is yet to be determined. (I'm due for my refresher in 3 years anyway.) I want to go to PA school, so I need a science degree. I'd aim high for med school, but at 35, I'm a tad too elderly to consider that route.
 
Just don't take A&P I and II at the same time like I did. But honestly the guys are right, undergrad A&P is not as hard as people make it out to be. Studying is the key thing. If you don't study then it will be difficult.
 
medichopeful said:
That's what I'm using. I'd definitely second this.
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That is the textbook I teach Anatomy & Physiology I and II with to nursing and pre-med students at the University, along with 2 others (but this person will not need the other 2)
 
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