Your Controversial EMS-Related Opinion

CbrMonster

Forum Lieutenant
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Nurses should not teach paramedics in paramedic school, with the only exception being flight nurses, or nurses who are medics as well.

P cards should not be solely obtained to get a fire job (Cali problem)

Firefighters should not get first dibs to medic programs especially at community colleges ..(socal problem again)
 

CCCSD

Forum Deputy Chief
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Nurses should not teach paramedics in paramedic school, with the only exception being flight nurses, or nurses who are medics as well.

P cards should not be solely obtained to get a fire job (Cali problem)

Firefighters should not get first dibs to medic programs especially at community colleges ..(socal problem again)
Can’t give enough likes!
 

VentMonkey

Family Guy
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P cards should not be solely obtained to get a fire job (Cali problem)

Firefighters should not get first dibs to medic programs especially at community colleges ..(socal problem again)
I don’t know that either are specific to only California.
Medics should abandon the notion that they are as smart as nurses....
Lol not sure if you’re joking but I’ll assume so? I’ve seen both with much left to be desired but that’s anywhere I suppose.
 

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
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487
63
Lol not sure if you’re joking but I’ll assume so? I’ve seen both with much left to be desired but that’s anywhere I suppose.
Well it is the "controversial opinion" thread, but at the same time, I have been through both medic school and am in nursing school and can say without reservation that nursing school is exponentially more difficult.. it's not even in the same ballpark. The breadth of knowledge that nurses learn, are tested on, and are subsequently responsible for knowing is not really something I realized before school.

To put it another way, medics are taught to think 2-3 steps ahead, and good medics will think 3-5 steps ahead. Nurses are taught to think 4-8 steps ahead, and good nurses will think 8-12 steps ahead.

I feel I was at the top of my game as a medic, and while I have seen dumbass nurses do dumbass things, my experience from nursing school tells me that just the fact that they passed this gauntlet of information means they aren't actually complete morons.

As a side note - one of the more surprising things I've learned in nursing and clinical is that it isn't quite "doctor tells me what to do and I do it" as we medics liked to believe. There are a lot of protocolized items that they can do and then notify the doc later, but then there's a ton of stuff that's like "hey doc, I know you're not here, this is what's happening, we need to do that" and they're like "yep, sounds good, make it hap'n cap'n"
 

NomadicMedic

Pot or Kettle? Unsure.
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Well it is the "controversial opinion" thread, but at the same time, I have been through both medic school and am in nursing school and can say without reservation that nursing school is exponentially more difficult.. it's not even in the same ballpark. The breadth of knowledge that nurses learn, are tested on, and are subsequently responsible for knowing is not really something I realized before school.

To put it another way, medics are taught to think 2-3 steps ahead, and good medics will think 3-5 steps ahead. Nurses are taught to think 4-8 steps ahead, and good nurses will think 8-12 steps ahead.

I feel I was at the top of my game as a medic, and while I have seen dumbass nurses do dumbass things, my experience from nursing school tells me that just the fact that they passed this gauntlet of information means they aren't actually complete morons.

As a side note - one of the more surprising things I've learned in nursing and clinical is that it isn't quite "doctor tells me what to do and I do it" as we medics liked to believe. There are a lot of protocolized items that they can do and then notify the doc later, but then there's a ton of stuff that's like "hey doc, I know you're not here, this is what's happening, we need to do that" and they're like "yep, sounds good, make it hap'n cap'n"
I think we really need to stop comparing nurses and paramedics. It’s like comparing plumbers and electricians. They both work in the building trades but the skill set is different, even though there are similarities. Do I think that nurses make good pre-hospital providers? Having seen many of them here in Pennsylvania, the answer is no. Conversely, do I think paramedics do a great job working in the emergency department? In most cases the answer for that is also no. We have very different skill sets and levels of training. Why do we keep comparing the two?
 
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VentMonkey

Family Guy
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@FiremanMike, that’s fair re: the thread topic. And will I can appreciate your new found respect and fervor for nurses and/ or nursing school, I think the dumbassery is much less about a profession.

I can respect the level of knowledge and education that they’re exposed to, my wife’s a nurse (and a damn good one), but I think that’s beside the point of rudimentary competence outside of the school setting.

How many paramedics do we both know who aced the didactic then took a hard nose dive with clinicals?

And yes, I realize that the schooling is apples and oranges, but that’s my tie-in to the “controversy” of the thread topic as well.

I see @NomadicMedic beat me to it. Haha, my dood.
 

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
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I think we really need to stop comparing nurses and paramedics. It’s like comparing plumbers and electricians. They both work in the building trades but the skill set is different, even though there are similarities. Do I think that nurses make good pre-hospital providers? Having seen many of them here in Pennsylvania, the answer is no. Conversely, do I think paramedics do a great job working in the emergency department? In most cases the answer for that is also know. We have very different skill sets and levels of training. Why do we keep comparing the two?

That's fair, but it happens every day on both sides.. nurses think medics are dumb, medics think nurses are dumb... Both are entrenched in their own in-group and shun the outside group..

My statement was in response to the notion that nurses shouldn't teach paramedic school, but I'd argue that their broadened knowledge base serves a purpose in how deep they can teach on a topic. This is valuable for everyone but the "just teach me how to get them to the hospital" crowd..

@FiremanMike, that’s fair re: the thread topic. And will I can appreciate your new found respect and fervor for nurses and/ or nursing school, I think the dumbassery is much less about a profession.

I can respect the level of knowledge and education that they’re exposed to, my wife’s a nurse (and a damn good one), but I think that’s beside the point of rudimentary competence outside of the school setting.

How many paramedics do we both know who aced the didactic then took a hard nose dive with clinicals?

And yes, I realize that the schooling is apples and oranges, but that’s my tie-in to the “controversy” of the thread topic as well.

I see @NomadicMedic beat me to it. Haha, my dood.

I agree, but just wanted to say that I feel clinical is also more involved when compared to medic school clinical.
 

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
911
487
63
Just so I'm not a completely argumentative *** - my wife is a nurse too, and has told me countless stories of absolute ***-hattery from some of her coworkers..
 

VentMonkey

Family Guy
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Just so I'm not a completely argumentative *** - my wife is a nurse too, and has told me countless stories of absolute ***-hattery from some of her coworkers..
Without derailing too much, my wife isn’t an ER or an ICU nurse. She’s not even actively working in a hospital setting, nor has she for quite some time.

All of that said, I think she’s still a brilliant clinician in her respective role and can see how well she thinks on her feet—even still.

On the other hand, I’ve all too often heard ER nurses look down on non-ER nurses as if they’re incompetent. That really pisses me off, probably because I know damn well my wife would still run circles around many of them even in a pinch.

Back to the thread topic:

The “need” for bulletproof vests for the sole purpose of feeling tacticool is lame.

If this in fact your stance, it speaks volumes about your lack of people skills and the importance how it ties into your clinical ones as a paramedic.

If you cannot understand this, I think you’re a cretinous paramedic.
 

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
911
487
63
Back to the thread topic:

The “need” for bulletproof vests for the sole purpose of feeling tacticool is lame.

If this in fact your stance, it speaks volumes about your lack of people skills and the importance how it ties into your clinical ones as a paramedic.

If you cannot understand this, I think you’re a cretinous paramedic.
100% agree.
 

Fezman92

NJ and PA EMT
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The “need” for bulletproof vests for the sole purpose of feeling tacticool is lame.
You mean I don't need a bulletproof vest that has my blood type and "EMS" on it for my IFT job?
 

Fezman92

NJ and PA EMT
497
99
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They also probably don't help people trust us. It might say "hey these EMS people don't trust anyone and are expecting that they could get shot on any call"
 

CCCSD

Forum Deputy Chief
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They also probably don't help people trust us. It might say "hey these EMS people don't trust anyone and are expecting that they could get shot on any call"
More like: “These militarized racist fascists are withholding life saving drugs from the disenchfranchised…”
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, EMT-P, TCRN, CEN
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Medics should abandon the notion that they are as smart as nurses....
Umm, is this "tongue in cheek" comment, or are you serious? Medics are as smart, if not smarter, then nurses.
 

VentMonkey

Family Guy
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Medics are as smart, if not smarter, then nurses.
Come on, man? You have enough letters behind your name with both credentials to assure me you’re much more articulate than to use this as your retort.

Sure I get th controversy thing, but people are people. Some are more astute than others regardless of said job title.
 

VentMonkey

Family Guy
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Come on, man? You have enough letters behind your name with both credentials to assure me you’re much more articulate than to use this as your retort.

Sure I get th controversy thing, but people are people. Some are more astute than others regardless of said job title.
ETA: we’re all pretty much above this on this forum, controversy thread or not. Hopefully you too were joking @MackTheKnife.
 

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
911
487
63
Umm, is this "tongue in cheek" comment, or are you serious? Medics are as smart, if not smarter, then nurses.
The breadth of curriculum of paramedic school isn’t even in the same ballpark as RN school. Passing RN school requires an exponentially deeper knowledge of physiology, pathophysiology, and pharmacology compared to passing paramedic school. A new grad RN has significantly more medical knowledge than a new grad paramedic.
 

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
911
487
63
Medics CAN be as smart as nurses, at least as it pertains to emergency care, but it takes dedication to the craft and a lot of hard work and self study. The medics who do that recognize the volume of work and aren’t generally the ones pounding their chests saying they’re as smart as nurses.

The ones that are tend to be the B and C medics who are pissed off that the nurse wasn’t taking them seriously when they were giving report so they want to ***** about the nurse to protect their ego..
 
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