Would you do it?

[SW-EMS]

Hi....I'm currently kicking around an idea and wanted to get some input. I'm currently going through a MFR program (paid for by my employer). I'm really interested in the things that I'm learning and enjoy the classes. Our MFR course is actually taught with a hybrid type of curriculum, it's roughly 96 hours long, we use and EMT-B text....we just lack a few hours of class time to meet the EMT-B requirement.

I'm thinking about going through EMT-I once I finish up MFR. The few draw backs I have are as follows. I work full time, the EMT-I course would come out of MY pocket (little over $3000). I do not really intend to seek employ as an EMT. My current job is more than enough to sustain my standard of living, but it would be nice to have as a fall back.

The reason I'm going through MFR and subsequently thinking about EMT-I is to be helpful for family members and co-workers. I work in a manufacturing setting, we have a fairly low incident rate, but in the past have had injuries ranging from minor lacerations and contusions, to major trauma (cause by moving machinery, falls from heights etc.), and including two or three on site fatalities over the years. I want to be able to help my co-workers, but would I really be of that much more help to them as an EMT-I? Our facility is less than two miles from a hospital, but it is not a trauma center, and they do not have their own transport. So transport could be 10-15 mins out.

 

[Ridryder911]

Why do it if you are not interested in doing it? We personally don't need just some more card carrying folks.

Also most states require you to be active as an EMT/I to maintain your certification so in a way it maybe a waste of time.

This is NOT a hobby and to be really proficient one has to ensure that they can maintain proficiency. You took a course that was proficient in meeting your needs and to be realistic the further up the chain, there is a large difference between the BLS and ALS education level (or at least should be).

R/r 911

 

[vquintessence]

If you're just getting it to be helpful for family/friends, then MFR should suit your needs fine. Like Ryder said, you will have to pay to re-cert every two years as well as pay for con-ed to keep your certificate. Also, I could be wrong but I don't think you can jump from MFR to EMT-I; you'd have to get your Basic first (another $1,000+).

As far as work goes, I assume you have at least an RN at your facility if you're a manufacturing plant? Further going to assume that your company probably wouldn't let you intervene much more than basic first aid, so having a certificate for IV access and intubation may not even be applicable for you due to your employer.

It's noble and very respectable you have a desire to KNOW how to help family/friends/coworkers in the event of an emergency. But like you said on your post, if the $3,000 class is already a burden, then consider the additional few hundred dollars you'd have to contribute biannually to just keep your certificate from expiring, along with the many hours you will have to devote on con-ed and skill proficiency as well as keeping up with the ever evolving field.

 

[AJ Hidell]

As Rid said, this would be completely pointless on your part. There is nothing taught in that course that would be of use to you in any situation other than working in EMS. EMT-I is not just an extension of EMR. It's not just more first aid. It enters into the realm of medical practice, utilizing legally restricted devices and procedures that are rarely of any use even to the EMT-I working in the field, much less to the lay person. You cannot do them without doctors orders. And if you do not do them constantly, you will not have the slightest chance of retaining them anyhow, making it also useless as something to "fall back on".

 

[fortsmithman]

If you're not going to be working EMS (911, IFT, or industrial) stick with MFR.

 

[SW-EMS]

fortsmithman - I don't plan to work EMS as a career. Maybe some PT but I'm going to keep the job I have now. You mentioned industrial as well as 911 and IFT, that's exactly what I'm referring to doing at my current job. While my main task is to maintain the control systems of the machinery, if there is an injury then myself and/or the other first responders and EMT's we have onsite evaluate, treat, and or package if transport is required.


vquintessence - We do not have an RN on site except for drug screens, eye, and hearing exams bi-weekly. Employer helps with the re-cert....employer actually provides EMT classes every now and then when there are enough people interested and economy is good. (just not lately) Procedure wise, if it's within the scope of your training level they're ok with you doing it. We have fully stocked drug boxes in each plant, and there have been occasions when IV's have been started on the plant floor by one of OUR EMT's.

EMS interests my greatly, it's just no feasible for my pay and benefit wise to change careers. I must say that I'm somewhat surprised though. Most threads I have read regarding education I've read here are in favor of it. I am getting a feeling of being looked down upon because I asked about educating for a part time/secondary skill.....:sad:

 

[AJ Hidell]

I must say that I'm somewhat surprised though. Most threads I have read regarding education I've read here are in favor of it. I am getting a feeling of being looked down upon because I asked about educating for a part time/secondary skill.....:sad:

Don't be silly. Did you read the posts? I mean like REALLY read them and comprehend them? Nobody told you not to do it. Waste your time and money in any way you want. Go ahead, take a school seat away from someone who is trying to establish a career if that floats your boat. Doesn't matter to me. It's just an utter and complete waste of time and money for you, so we're saying that and nothing more.

Again IT IS NOT JUST MORE FIRST AID TRAINING. I know that the disjointed, stair-step way that EMS education is currently laid out leads most n00bs to look at it that way, but that is not how it is. EMT-I is medical education. It will be of no more use to you than going to dental school then never practicing. That's all we're saying. If you didn't want to hear the truth, then you shouldn't have asked.

 

[enjoynz]

I can understand you enjoying the class that you are doing and in a factory industry the MFR certificate is more than enough.
It's also more than enough to help your friends, co-workers and family until an ambulance arrives, which the hospital so close,
you are lucky (Ours is a 50 minute drive away).

It not just knowing how to be an EMT-I, you need the equipment (which is usually found on the ambulance) and ongoing training.
If you really enjoy the aspects of EMS practices, you need to at least join a volunteer (block your eyes you seasoned paid staff,
I don't want another Vollie bashing to start) or part-time paid position, to keep the skills up that a EMT-I is trained for.
So if you are happy to put forward $3000 and do the training, you really need to look to it as an ongoing second career!
EMS can be rewarding and also can be a strain at times. It can also take a lot of your spare time.
If you are happy at the thought of that...then go for it!!!

Cheers Enjoynz

 

[Sasha]

I must say that I'm somewhat surprised though. Most threads I have read regarding education I've read here are in favor of it. I am getting a feeling of being looked down upon because I asked about educating for a part time/secondary skill.....

Those who are in favor of more education are also in favor of EMS as a profession, and not just some part time hobby.

 

[Veneficus]

Would you want to be treated by a doctor who went to medical school as a hobby or something to fall back on?

When we speak of increasing educational standards, we speak about a level that would make it impossible in all but the most rare circumstances for anyone not as a primary professional in medicine to meet.

Even if your MFR class used an EMT-Basic book, the skills Basics perform are rather benign. (please save your "we give nitro" type comments, we let patients give it to themselves)

As for advanced skills, I once said "a monkey could intubate." But apparently many providers can't, so I guess I am wrong about that. A drug abuser can start an IV, but rarely will that save a life by itself. Now you start having to make decisions, crystallod? Colloid? Which osmotic properties? How much fluid?

Sure the cookbook may say 1000L normal saline for a dehydration patient. Are you going to do that to your patient who also has CHF? Why? Why not? When would you?

How about the guy that gets chopped up in the machines? IV with fluids wide open? May not be the best idea.

How often will you intubate? (we know if you don't practice it, you will not be successful) That could actually do harm.

drugs? Indications, absolute contra indications? Relative contra indications? Side effects? Interactions? No way will you pick up all this in an EMT-I course, most medics are hard pressed for it. (unfortunately)

If you want to help your friends and family, there are better (aka more practical) ways than the EMT chain. If it is something you really want to do, go for it. But whether you do it part time, full time, or when the urge strikes you. You have the same requirements everyone else does. The same proficency and knowledge will be demanded; both by those in the field and in the legal community. If altruism is your goal, most hospitals could always use volunteers.

 

[EMTWintz]

Those who are in favor of more education are also in favor of EMS as a profession, and not just some part time hobby.

Hey now, there are some of us who are not in EMS as a profession but take our "hobby" very seriously.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Hey now, there are some of us who are not in EMS as a profession but take our "hobby" very seriously.

You also take jobs away from people with professional commitment who would like to devote to EMS as a career. You also deny your community full-time professional coverage. You also prevent educational levels from progressing. Thanks for taking all that "very seriously". You're my hero.

 

[fortsmithman]

fortsmithman - I don't plan to work EMS as a career. Maybe some PT but I'm going to keep the job I have now. You mentioned industrial as well as 911 and IFT, that's exactly what I'm referring to doing at my current job.

:sad:

If your employer pays for it then go for it. In Alberta Industrial EMS makes more than 911 and IFT EMS. As well Alberta College of Paramedics requires its members to complete an online exam before being reregistered. One of our EMRs said the online exam takes around 2 hours to complete. I saw an ad for a EMTs job with an industrial service and they paid 400/day with paramedics 675/day. Like I said go for it and when you do take it try to get more of you job duties involving more to the EMT side. For those that say EMTs need to use equipment found in the back of a 911 ambulance some of the industrial service trucks are better stocked that mot ambulances.

 

[Foxbat]

I want to be able to help my co-workers, but would I really be of that much more help to them as an EMT-I?

Probably not.
As an EMT-I (as opposed to MFR and EMT-Basic), you will be able to perform interventions which:
a) require a lot of practice;
b) require equipment (IV supplies, intubation supplies) which your employer will probably not provide (and then there is the whole legal issue with it).
If you already were an EMT-I in an EMS service, (I have no desire to get involved into "volunteer vs. career" debate for 7868721-th time), and spent substantial amount of time treating patients outside your work, that might have been a different story. But where you are now, it is not worth it, IMO.

 

[EMTWintz]

You also take jobs away from people with professional commitment who would like to devote to EMS as a career. You also deny your community full-time professional coverage. You also prevent educational levels from progressing. Thanks for taking all that "very seriously". You're my hero.

Hey if you are offering to move to "small town IL" i will all but give you my spot on this squad on a golden platter. Until then I, and others just as devoted as me, are all that this town has. Prevent edicational levels from progressing? WTF? Tell me the point of getting a medic license for a BLS squad. We have all the coverage that this town needs. There is always at least two EMTB's in town plus a driver at all times, as most of us have adjusted our work schedules to accomodate the needs of the town.
To the people in this town we are a God Send. And that is all I give a rat's arse about.

 

[Sasha]

Hey if you are offering to move to "small town IL" i will all but give you my spot on this squad on a golden platter. Until then I, and others just as devoted as me, are all that this town has. Prevent edicational levels from progressing? WTF? Tell me the point of getting a medic license for a BLS squad. We have all the coverage that this town needs. There is always at least two EMTB's in town plus a driver at all times, as most of us have adjusted our work schedules to accomodate the needs of the town.
To the people in this town we are a God Send. And that is all I give a rat's arse about.

So you're saying your town has no need for ALS?

Tell that to your next CHFer coughing up pink frothy stuff!

 

[Ridryder911]

Hey if you are offering to move to "small town IL" i will all but give you my spot on this squad on a golden platter. Until then I, and others just as devoted as me, are all that this town has. Prevent edicational levels from progressing? WTF? Tell me the point of getting a medic license for a BLS squad. We have all the coverage that this town needs. There is always at least two EMTB's in town plus a driver at all times, as most of us have adjusted our work schedules to accomodate the needs of the town.
To the people in this town we are a God Send. And that is all I give a rat's arse about.

I used to say ignorance was blessed.. but this borders upon stupidity. Please tell me about the aspiration pneumonia patient that died because you were unable to intubate and secure their airway, or the life threatening AMI that was increasing infarct size or the patient with pain and you could not administer an analgesic. Now, what exactly will you a ..."God send".. going to do for that premi birth? Are you preventing those brain cells from dying due to hypoglycemia? I wonder how your community would feel if they knew they could provide almost the same care with a Boy Scout first aid course? God send? Yes, first aid is essential but please, please don't disguise yourself as medical providers.

Better quit patting yourself on the back before you need to call a Paramedic to administer pain med.'s..

Yes, you and I do mean you are one of the downfalls of prehospital care! It is the ignorant providers as such. Did you rally in support of increasing the level of care or rendezvous with an ALS? Or are you part of the whining, crying of how hard EMS courses have become? Did you participate in studies of possibly funding a real EMS? ..............I didn't think so..
No, it is exactly people like you who like to blow their own horn instead of progressing onward. The same people that are protesting increased education and accreditation because it will be "too tough" on the caring citizens.

I do thank you though. You are exactly the reason there is such an opinion of why EMS should be primarily professional and only per ALS personnel. You demonstrated the exact reason why we still have a crappy EMS system within the U.S. borders.

I ask you this; how does it feel to deliver inefficient care more than Johnny & Roy did nearly 40 years ago? .. God send? .. I think not; deterimental? Possibly.

R/r 911

 

[EMTWintz]

I used to say ignorance was blessed.. but this borders upon stupidity. Please tell me about the aspiration pneumonia patient that died because you were unable to intubate and secure their airway, or the life threatening AMI that was increasing infarct size or the patient with pain and you could not administer an analgesic. Now, what exactly will you a ..."God send".. going to do for that premi birth? Are you preventing those brain cells from dying due to hypoglycemia? I wonder how your community would feel if they knew they could provide almost the same care with a Boy Scout first aid course? God send? Yes, first aid is essential but please, please don't disguise yourself as medical providers.

Better quit patting yourself on the back before you need to call a Paramedic to administer pain med.'s..

Yes, you and I do mean you are one of the downfalls of prehospital care! It is the ignorant providers as such. Did you rally in support of increasing the level of care or rendezvous with an ALS? Or are you part of the whining, crying of how hard EMS courses have become? Did you participate in studies of possibly funding a real EMS? ..............I didn't think so..
No, it is exactly people like you who like to blow their own horn instead of progressing onward. The same people that are protesting increased education and accreditation because it will be "too tough" on the caring citizens.

I do thank you though. You are exactly the reason there is such an opinion of why EMS should be primarily professional and only per ALS personnel. You demonstrated the exact reason why we still have a crappy EMS system within the U.S. borders.

I ask you this; how does it feel to deliver inefficient care more than Johnny & Roy did nearly 40 years ago? .. God send? .. I think not; deterimental? Possibly.

R/r 911

I am not saying that pt's live all because of us, You my friend are reading more into it than what is there. Let me explain this, we are on mutual page with our ALS unit. We may not be able to intubate, but hey that is why we are all trained on King tubes N Combi's, AMI's we may not have advanced meds but we carry ASA and nitro, which would be medics first line. Whining about the classes being hard,,,,,uhm NO! not hard enough. But W/E.

 

[Ridryder911]

I am glad to see this but why don't your community deserve ALS first before an BLS unit? Why should even those exist except in the very remote areas?

R/ r911

 

[ffemt8978]

You also take jobs away from people with professional commitment who would like to devote to EMS as a career. You also deny your community full-time professional coverage. You also prevent educational levels from progressing. Thanks for taking all that "very seriously". You're my hero.

You're assuming that there would be a job created/available if there weren't volunteers, and assuming that there would be funding for it, and assuming the community wants full-time professional coverage. Mighty big assumptions there.