aristigal
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On every call. They have like 6 people in th bus then they want me for an ALS assist not to mention all my equiptment...then they want to whine when I say some of you gotta go. What do they think it's a clown car?
Why the Hell
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rescuecpt
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Not all vollies are like that, file an official complaint with their Chief. My crews send a lot of people to scene, but only allow 4 max in the house until we need lift assists or whatever. It's all up to the management.
rescuemedic7306
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Quote: (aristigal @ Jun 6 2005, 08:44 AM) On every call. They have like 6 people in th bus then they want me for an ALS assist not to mention all my equiptment...then they want to whine when I say some of you gotta go. What do they think it's a clown car?
Because: they are volunteers and they want to be involved and probably think it is what they are supposed to do. They do the job because they want to, not because they are paid to do it. Therefore instead of talking as if they are a pain in the a**, try explaining what you need and why, or set up a protocol with the service for ALS assists, most will respect that.
Because: they are volunteers and they want to be involved and probably think it is what they are supposed to do. They do the job because they want to, not because they are paid to do it. Therefore instead of talking as if they are a pain in the a**, try explaining what you need and why, or set up a protocol with the service for ALS assists, most will respect that.
usafmedic45
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Speaking as a volunteer EMS Lieutenant I'd agree with the statement that they probably think that's what they are supposed to do. Most have never worked in a very organized system- I know I had to "retrain" a large number of my volies to avoid the very sort of clusterf--ks you're describing. Now the regulations are no more than 4 people on scene, unless it's a cardiac arrest, extrication, or requires extra manpower for some reason (fat patient, multiple patients, etc.).
We also instituted a policy of requiring all volunteers to mark en route on the radio so we can keep track of how many people are responding and after 4 people have marked en route, including those on board apparatus and those responding by POV, either a disregard is given or the additional units are required to slow their run (no lights, a cold response) until the first unit makes the scene and can advise as to the needs of the call.
There was initially some resistance to the idea (mainly from the jumpy rookies who want to keep their run numbers as high as possible
), until we suspended two probies for violating the policy. Then people realized I wasn't screwing around and meant what I said and that the Chief fully intended on giving me the authority to hold people responsible for their violations of EMS policies and to hand up punishments as I saw fit given the circumstances.
We also instituted a policy of requiring all volunteers to mark en route on the radio so we can keep track of how many people are responding and after 4 people have marked en route, including those on board apparatus and those responding by POV, either a disregard is given or the additional units are required to slow their run (no lights, a cold response) until the first unit makes the scene and can advise as to the needs of the call.
There was initially some resistance to the idea (mainly from the jumpy rookies who want to keep their run numbers as high as possible
), until we suspended two probies for violating the policy. Then people realized I wasn't screwing around and meant what I said and that the Chief fully intended on giving me the authority to hold people responsible for their violations of EMS policies and to hand up punishments as I saw fit given the circumstances.
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Well, the first question I have is: Can you give us some more details on what actually happened 'this time' that made you post this? I think something 'broke the camels back'.
And was there 20 people responding or 6?
You need to post a more accurate description of what actually happened.
And was there 20 people responding or 6?
You need to post a more accurate description of what actually happened.
TTLWHKR
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Oh quit yet nitpickin.. I've never seen an ambulance with 20 people on it.. And it's very rare to see six people on one.
You just wanted to attack them for some petty indifference. Besides, what do you expect us to do about it. Tell your supervisor, it's not like they are breaking the law or responding with an illegal crew. Sometimes more is better, six is too many, but two is not enough either. I always ran w/ a crew of two, myself and the medic.. and that wasn't enough on 60% of the calls.. You can't intubate, push meds and start IV's all the while doing compressions by yourself.. So chances are a lot of people died because our ambulances were understaffed. Two or three good EMT's in the back is an ideal crew. If they have the upper hand when you get in, know what you need to do.. there is no room for mistakes.
Maybe you should consider education over attitude?
Look into "ALS Assistant" classes.
You just wanted to attack them for some petty indifference. Besides, what do you expect us to do about it. Tell your supervisor, it's not like they are breaking the law or responding with an illegal crew. Sometimes more is better, six is too many, but two is not enough either. I always ran w/ a crew of two, myself and the medic.. and that wasn't enough on 60% of the calls.. You can't intubate, push meds and start IV's all the while doing compressions by yourself.. So chances are a lot of people died because our ambulances were understaffed. Two or three good EMT's in the back is an ideal crew. If they have the upper hand when you get in, know what you need to do.. there is no room for mistakes.
Maybe you should consider education over attitude?
Look into "ALS Assistant" classes.
We use to have a problem with too many people showing up for calls so we have gone to using a schedule for each month and putting crews together of at least 2 people. I agree that two people is usually not enough. Even though our day shift usually runs two people simply for the fact that we don't have very many people around town that can get off of work for each ambulance call. But there are some that can assist if extra help is needed. Our nights are three people we use to have four but cut back because of city administration. Three people is usually enough our police department almost always respond so we have a fourth person for lifting assistance. The senior EMT that is on call is the one responsible for making the call of having enough people or needing more assistance. We have just recently had a code and we had the three show up that were on call had one extra person cuz the driver was suppose to be getting off in half an hour for work. We had one extra person who ownes a radio call in asking if we had enough we told him to meet us on scene. So we had 5 people responding the police department was on scene doing CPR (cuz family had started wittnessed arrest). Needless to say we could have done with out one EMT cuz they weren't able to do a whole lot of lifting let alone CPR. And today for a chest pain they asked for one more person to respond just in case cuz there were only two people on schedule. But yes there are times when two people are enough Like a simple transfer to a larger hospital but most would still prefer to have two in back and one up front (Just in case). Oh yea we also don't do ALS assist calls in our immediate area. most transport times to the hospital are generally under 10 min.
(this is from a volleys point of view.)
(this is from a volleys point of view.)
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Ok. First - Steve, great idea.Originally posted by usafmedic45@Jun 6 2005, 11:40 AM
Speaking as a volunteer EMS Lieutenant I'd agree with the statement that they probably think that's what they are supposed to do. Most have never worked in a very organized system- I know I had to "retrain" a large number of my volies to avoid the very sort of clusterf--ks you're describing. Now the regulations are no more than 4 people on scene, unless it's a cardiac arrest, extrication, or requires extra manpower for some reason (fat patient, multiple patients, etc.).
We also instituted a policy of requiring all volunteers to mark en route on the radio so we can keep track of how many people are responding and after 4 people have marked en route, including those on board apparatus and those responding by POV, either a disregard is given or the additional units are required to slow their run (no lights, a cold response) until the first unit makes the scene and can advise as to the needs of the call.
There was initially some resistance to the idea (mainly from the jumpy rookies who want to keep their run numbers as high as possible
My one squad is having this issue, too. We keep 2 rigs staffed 24x7. Vollies 6p-6a, supplemented with paid supervisory staff, paid 6a-6p, supplemented by vollies. We have 3 levels of "JAFO's"
Secondary EMT - State cert'ed individual, as far as DOH is concerned is fully qualified. In this catagory while precepting for "primary" status (crew chief) or becuase they are under 18.
EMT student - Self explanatory - can play, must be supervised, can't do "EMT-Level" skills (epi, inhalers, nitro)
Attendant - Holds the bags... I've had some great attendants, but many don't care about learning B/P's until in EMT school.
We find ourselves innundated by vollies that want to run, but can't because we have too many folks already on station. I've seen some folks selt up rotations, but that isn't fair to anyone... the folks who signed up on the schedule to be there, and the folks who showed up (in uniform) hoping to run.
We are allowed to take "Up to 4 members" per rig - supposed to be 3 for an ALS call - Driver, Primary, 3rd, (4th) I prefer to take a 4th, and even with ALS runs - someone ALWAYS drives the medic car anyway, leaving Me, 3rd person, and Medic in back of rig. I can precept a newer EMT, and/or help the medic while someone else takes a B/P or puts patient on O2.
My $0.02
Jon
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aristigal
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It seems to be the new people and from one particular squad. We have been trying to work this out as best we can. Problem is they have a lot of people that don't know where things are or that don't know what to do. Now we have good size rigs around here for the most part. In the city they use type 2's and they are over crowded with more than 2 or 3 at most. What I keep running into is people with little to no training that want to learn. While I understand the need for training it has to have an end point. When you need me and possibly my partner in the back to do ALS you can't have 4 of your own. And yes they do have about 20 people on the scene and usually about 4 or 5 want to ride in to the hospital.
Now the squad that I volunteer for has a crew 7 nights a week and they run 4 man crews. They usually have ALS so it doesn't become a problem. Plus all our members are told that once the ambulance calls enroute you don't go to the scene with a few exceptions:
A: You are their ALS
B: They call for additional manpower
C: You live on a certain side of the village because right now there is a bridge out that lengthens our response times.
This works really well. I think we just have some people that are too quick to jump the gun. It's always been a problem with this squad. In fact they call it the rolling christmas tree around here because the rig is out front with red and the cars are all behind with green.
I guess when I posted this I was frustrated as I can sometimes get with this squad that happens to really urk me a lot about a lot of things not just this. I'm sorry it I offended people.
Now the squad that I volunteer for has a crew 7 nights a week and they run 4 man crews. They usually have ALS so it doesn't become a problem. Plus all our members are told that once the ambulance calls enroute you don't go to the scene with a few exceptions:
A: You are their ALS
B: They call for additional manpower
C: You live on a certain side of the village because right now there is a bridge out that lengthens our response times.
This works really well. I think we just have some people that are too quick to jump the gun. It's always been a problem with this squad. In fact they call it the rolling christmas tree around here because the rig is out front with red and the cars are all behind with green.
I guess when I posted this I was frustrated as I can sometimes get with this squad that happens to really urk me a lot about a lot of things not just this. I'm sorry it I offended people.