Why Obamacare is the Best Thing To Happen To EMS Since Johnny and Roy

[DPM]

In the UK you pay approximately $2,500 per person per year on healthcare, and you are treated in a system that ranks better than the US in most Healthcare measurements, where you pay on average $6,000 per person per year.

The UK may pay more in tax, but the overall net cost is much less. This is something that many in the US are surprised by.

Yes, in the UK there are people that weigh the cost of treatment against the benefit of doing it... but this happens in the US already when insurance companies refuse to pay for more expensive treatment options. In the UK there is the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) and they decide which drugs and treatments the NHS will cover. They consider the finite budget that is available and decide the best ways to make this money do the most.These are not the dreaded death panels that we have heard about, merely a system that already exists in this country.

The NHS is not without it's pitfalls, but there are few instances where the US system is better than those found in the UK and the rest of Europe.

David Cameron, the current British Prime Minister and leader of the right-wing conservative party said of the NHS "One of the wonderful things about living in this country is that the moment you're inured or fall ill, no matter who you are, where you are from or how much money you've got, you know that the NHS will look after you." This cannot be said for the 45 million people in this country that cannot afford insurance.

 

[Arovetli]

In the UK you pay approximately $2,500 per person per year on healthcare, and you are treated in a system that ranks better than the US in most Healthcare measurements, where you pay on average $6,000 per person per year.

The UK may pay more in tax, but the overall net cost is much less. This is something that many in the US are surprised by.

Yes, in the UK there are people that weigh the cost of treatment against the benefit of doing it... but this happens in the US already when insurance companies refuse to pay for more expensive treatment options. In the UK there is the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) and they decide which drugs and treatments the NHS will cover. They consider the finite budget that is available and decide the best ways to make this money do the most.These are not the dreaded death panels that we have heard about, merely a system that already exists in this country.

The NHS is not without it's pitfalls, but there are few instances where the US system is better than those found in the UK and the rest of Europe.

David Cameron, the current British Prime Minister and leader of the right-wing conservative party said of the NHS "One of the wonderful things about living in this country is that the moment you're inured or fall ill, no matter who you are, where you are from or how much money you've got, you know that the NHS will look after you." This cannot be said for the 45 million people in this country that cannot afford insurance.

Hush child.

American Exceptionalism.

 

[Bullets]

In the UK you pay approximately $2,500 per person per year on healthcare, and you are treated in a system that ranks better than the US in most Healthcare measurements, where you pay on average $6,000 per person per year.

The UK may pay more in tax, but the overall net cost is much less. This is something that many in the US are surprised by.

Yes, in the UK there are people that weigh the cost of treatment against the benefit of doing it... but this happens in the US already when insurance companies refuse to pay for more expensive treatment options. In the UK there is the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) and they decide which drugs and treatments the NHS will cover. They consider the finite budget that is available and decide the best ways to make this money do the most.These are not the dreaded death panels that we have heard about, merely a system that already exists in this country.

The NHS is not without it's pitfalls, but there are few instances where the US system is better than those found in the UK and the rest of Europe.

David Cameron, the current British Prime Minister and leader of the right-wing conservative party said of the NHS "One of the wonderful things about living in this country is that the moment you're inured or fall ill, no matter who you are, where you are from or how much money you've got, you know that the NHS will look after you." This cannot be said for the 45 million people in this country that cannot afford insurance.

And if you have no problem being put on a bed in a line of a dozen other patients, moved from one room to another, waiting for the overworked staff to get around to you once a day then by all means move to the UK.

The NHS is not without its problems, their staff is overworked even by our standards, Doctors see a patient once a day, there have been problems with disease running rampant through hospitals and overcrowding on all floors.

Ultimately, it comes down to ideology. Until you can change the American attitude regarding self-determination you wont change the healthcare system. There is a significant portion of the country who believe that not everyone is entitled to the maximum level of care or that healthcare is a business the government should be in. They cant even manage what they control now, why would it be a good idea to let them take on an EXPANDED role in healthcare. You get what you pay for.

 

[DPM]

And if you have no problem being put on a bed in a line of a dozen other patients, moved from one room to another, waiting for the overworked staff to get around to you once a day then by all means move to the UK.

The NHS is not without its problems, their staff is overworked even by our standards, Doctors see a patient once a day, there have been problems with disease running rampant through hospitals and overcrowding on all floors.

Ultimately, it comes down to ideology. Until you can change the American attitude regarding self-determination you wont change the healthcare system. There is a significant portion of the country who believe that not everyone is entitled to the maximum level of care or that healthcare is a business the government should be in. They cant even manage what they control now, why would it be a good idea to let them take on an EXPANDED role in healthcare. You get what you pay for.

Have you ever been to a Hospital in Oakland? Because that sounds like the situation you provided. I don't want to put your nose out of joint, but on what are you basing this opinion? I have first had experience in both systems, can you say the same?

As some of you know, I was a soldier before I got into EMS and I spent quite some time recovering from wounds received overseas in these dirty, over crowded hospitals... and that was not the impression that I got. And IF these hospitals are as disease-ridden and disorganized as you described, why are people healthier in the UK? They must be doing something right. I would rather see my Dr once a day and change rooms if it meant I recovered sooner, it cost me less money and I lived longer.

What you described is not how the NHS operates, and that's besides the point. The NHS is one of many examples worldwide of a nationally funded healthcare system. I didn't say the US needs to mirror the British system, or the Spanish or German systems, I was using the NHS as one example where universal healthcare exists and works well.

Why do we feel that it is un-American to try and improve our current system? We can all agree that it isn't perfect, yet we violently resist the idea of changing it.

 

[Bullets]

Have you ever been to a Hospital in Oakland? Because that sounds like the situation you provided. I don't want to put your nose out of joint, but on what are you basing this opinion? I have first had experience in both systems, can you say the same?

As some of you know, I was a soldier before I got into EMS and I spent quite some time recovering from wounds received overseas in these dirty, over crowded hospitals... and that was not the impression that I got. And IF these hospitals are as disease-ridden and disorganized as you described, why are people healthier in the UK? They must be doing something right. I would rather see my Dr once a day and change rooms if it meant I recovered sooner, it cost me less money and I lived longer.

What you described is not how the NHS operates, and that's besides the point. The NHS is one of many examples worldwide of a nationally funded healthcare system. I didn't say the US needs to mirror the British system, or the Spanish or German systems, I was using the NHS as one example where universal healthcare exists and works well.

Why do we feel that it is un-American to try and improve our current system? We can all agree that it isn't perfect, yet we violently resist the idea of changing it.

4 Days in a london hospital

And various news agencies and articles from the UK, who hardly sing the NHS's praises. Seems a lot like a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the Atlantic, for both countries

Americans are resistant to change because some people believe they shouldn't be forced to pay for anything they dont want, nor should they have to pay for someone else.

 

[fortsmithman]

I am curious why it is called Obama care when wasn't it Bill and Hillary's idea when they were in the Whitehouse.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Why do we feel that it is un-American to try and improve our current system? We can all agree that it isn't perfect, yet we violently resist the idea of changing it.

Can you provide an example of when someone used violence to resist the idea of changing the American healthcare system? I call BS.

I think the reason there is so much resistance to change in the US is because the American people already feel fleeced. The government is out of F'ing control already. A huge proportion of the federal budget already goes to fund entitlements and wars that few support. And we are going on 17 TRILLION dollars in debt, on a trajectory that will absolutely bankrupt us before long.

And after all that, now you have the same people who brought us the VA, Medicaid, Medicare, SS, TSA, DEA, Eric Holder, NCLB, the Patriot Act, the NDAA, and countless trillions of other wasted dollars on various boondoggles and rights violations telling us "if you just give us more federal control over healthcare, we can fix it" when it is already the most highly regulated and most BROKEN industry we have.

And you actually question WHY people might resist that? Seriously?

It is a fatal mistake to assume that resistance to more federal control equals resistance to change. Come up with proposals that don't involve more federal control and spending and maybe people wouldn't resist so much.

 

[Arovetli]

Can you provide an example of when someone used violence to resist the idea of changing the American healthcare system? I call BS.

I think the reason there is so much resistance to change in the US is because the American people already feel fleeced. The government is out of F'ing control already. A huge proportion of the federal budget already goes to fund entitlements and wars that few support. And we are going on 17 TRILLION dollars in debt, on a trajectory that will absolutely bankrupt us before long.

And after all that, now you have the same people who brought us the VA, Medicaid, Medicare, SS, TSA, DEA, Eric Holder, NCLB, the Patriot Act, the NDAA, and countless trillions of other wasted dollars on various boondoggles and rights violations telling us "if you just give us more federal control over healthcare, we can fix it" when it is already the most highly regulated and most BROKEN industry we have.

And you actually question WHY people might resist that? Seriously?

It is a fatal mistake to assume that resistance to more federal control equals resistance to change. Come up with proposals that don't involve more federal control and spending and maybe people wouldn't resist so much.

That's so good I just wanted to post it again.

 

[Arovetli]

I am curious why it is called Obama care when wasn't it Bill and Hillary's idea when they were in the Whitehouse.

Because if we called it was it was:

:censored::censored::censored::censored:ing mother:censored::censored::censored::censored:ing care

It would get censored. See above.

 

[Clipper1]

Have you ever been to a Hospital in Oakland? .

May I suggest getting a copy of the "Waiting Room" (Highland) for those who haven't?

http://www.itvs.org/films/waiting-room

 

[Niesje]

I dont resist change. I resist change in this direction. The US government has shown us incompitance at the best and corruption at the worst. These things should be left up to individuals and state legislation. There should be more freedom. We don't want or need more legislation. I wish everyone could get free health coverage, but I also wish wars didn't exist, we didn't have to pay taxes, that I could make banker salary in EMS, and I could eat a steady diet of donuts without getting fat. It would be nice, but it's just not happening.

 

[Aidey]

Let's keep this about EMS and the ACA, and not a debate about personal opinions on the act overall.

 

[Clipper1]

Let's keep this about EMS and the ACA, and not a debate about personal opinions on the act overall.

Niesje makes a good point and it is probably what is on many American's minds when they read through this Act.

The CA invokes personal opinion by limiting choice since it is merely a government controlled HMO by design. Do you honestly think it will change much for EMS when people are told they can only go to certain doctors and have only x amount of treatment? Anyone here who has ever been covered by a limiting HMO knows the frustration with just dealing with one company. The small businesses will be scrambling for the cheapest plan to meet the mandates. This will affect the employees and their coverage of some ambulance companies.

 

[Hunter]

Seems to like me people are ignoring the fact that the original post stated that Obama care can't survive in it's current State and that it will be changed, because it needs to be. I feel like as a whole it's a good idea and a great concept, but execution is always the problem, as with everything.

Someone mentioned hospitals transferring more patients to other hospitals to fix the billing issue, but what happens when a patient gets discharged within a week and decides to go back to the hospital within days? Transfer them again? There's patients who go to hospitals every week, more than once. The key to fixing our founding problem and the whole thing with "cost of healthcare is too high" is prevention. With that we end back at the community paramedicine idea. (Regardless if your opinion of nurses, or other healthcare professionals being involved in this.) This is the (best) future for EMS and smart hospitals will be glad when it happens; it's not only gonna minimize visits where hospitals won't be able to bill but it'll mean that the patients they get from EMS will be true emergencies and allow them to get paid at s higher %. Whatever changes are made to obamacare or it's predecessor will need a provision not just for traditional 911 EMS but for preventative community paramedicine.

None of these changes would be possible with Medicare/Medicaid. EMS needs change. Changing/instituting national health care "insurance" is going to snowball change in every aspect of American medicine.

 

[Medic Tim]

I am not lookin to get into a political debate and I understand there is much more to the bill than what my following post comments on.

I have worked and lived in the USA and Canada. Both systems are far from perfect but what it comes down to for me is quality of life. Yes I pay more taxes in Canada but I also make a higher wage, have an excellent pension and have additional insurance ( life, medical, dental) provided by my employer. EMS up here is a career and not just a job. We also have higher education standards. People are always complaining about making more money or getting more education and furthering ems then resist the Changes that could make that happen.

 

[Aidey]

This is just for clarification purposes, almost everyone has stayed on topic.

This thread is for the discussion of how the ACA is going to affect EMS. Including things like reimbursement, the type of care EMS provides and the future of volunteers, as laid out in the OP. It is not the place to discuss your general opinion about the act as a whole. Discussing what benefits EMS employers may or may not offer really isn't relevant to the OP.

 

[phideux]

I don't think it will affect EMS much, if at all. The same emergencies will happen, the same system abusers will still call, and the same people who think they are "entitled" to their free ride to the hospital, for every little minor complaint, while being followed by a family member in one of their 3 cars will still happen.
Reimbursements to EMS from the abusers and the entitled will probably get smaller, and the country will probably bleed green until it is out of green to bleed.
If this plan is so great, why did all the people that are implementing it, exempting themselves from it?????

 

[Arovetli]

If this plan is so great, why did all the people that are implementing it, exempting themselves from it?????

I think this is something we have seen for awhile and will continue to see, and I think it will show itself too in EMS.

We, (American society) are dividing up increasingly into economic segments. While the has always been a notion of economic "class" in the US, it generally hasn't been very pronounced, the very wealthy were a small segment, and the poorer classes were generally comprised of minority races. We segmented much more on the basis of race (wrongly), and now the divides are much more of the economic nature.

I think "community para-crazy-medicine" will be alot more pronounced in the lower income communities, and you'll probably see the same type of response in the wealthier communities that we already have.

Alot, not all, but the parts which we generally discuss, of the ACA is geared to uninsured care. Other than jacking up taxes, I don't think and mid-middle class and up will change much.

You can have all the nurse practitioners and community paramedics, but I'll get my care from a physician and I'm willing to pay for it. There's alot that share this sentiment.

This next statement is going to make me sound cold, and like an ***, but the majority of healthcare reform is geared to a segment of the population I'm not hyper concerned about. I have compassion and human decency that I wish them care, but I'm not going to allow an entitlement program to break my bank. My family was poor nothing immigrants like everyone else a few generations ago, and they built a life for themselves. There's something to be said for the fact that if you don't work, you don't eat.

If that bothers you, then realize the clothes you wear we're likely made by poor for pennies, the low prices we pay at the store are because of abusive working conditions for foreign producers, and the amount of resources we waste daily could save lives around the globe. The world is a harsh place and to an extent we are all selfish, and well, it is what it is.

I have compassion for the poor. But you know what, I need my grass cut as well. And id be glad to pay them to do it, and they can use that money to tend to their affairs.

So, by explaining that, I mean to reinforce that there are people not willing to pay through the nose to provide care to the poor, and that does effect EMS already, since alot if our EMTALA mandated resources are tied up with them.

In my big city home town, we had the "white flight" epidemic decades ago, but now we see "black flight" too, which as people of all colors and creeds improve their economic standing, they break out from the lower income areas, form communities of like minded folks. And, they start breaking off politically from the poor sections.

That's a big deal.

It leaves EMS and hospitals in the poorer areas severely strapped for cash. I know there will be some income for transporting the poor under the ACA, but I really doubt that it will be worth it if the poor become increasingly isolated from the others, and we really separate by economic classes.

It's frightening.

In my town, the city cops are either rookies who get 2 years experience then bail to the suburbs, or they are crooked or useless or both. Same effect has happened in fire. I would hate to see our emergency providers continue to bail out of the cities and into the suburbs where the pay and conditions are better.

DC and Detroit and NO look more like Dresden then true world class cities, and this decay has plunged the EMS into an abyss there. I don't want to see that trend continue, but it may.


Mods, I hope that was on topic enough to be relevant.

Edit: nothing racial or offensive was meant at all by this, just pointing out the nature of humans and the history we have had. And you know, alot of the problems and disparities we are faced with today are effects of terrible things that happened previously. To clarify, I support hard work and self determination and charity, but never grinding someone under the heel of my own progress.

 

[rescue1]

I just want to jump in and mention that it's important to know that while it's likely single payer health will increase taxes in the short run, the US government currently pays more per capita (in medicare and medicaid) than any other country pays for it's single payer system per capita.

I'm not suggesting any specific solutions, but it's important for people to realize that we pay more of our taxes towards healthcare than Canadians do, and get less health care for it.

 

[Arovetli]

I just want to jump in and mention that it's important to know that while it's likely single payer health will increase taxes in the short run, the US government currently pays more per capita (in medicare and medicaid) than any other country pays for it's single payer system per capita.

I'm not suggesting any specific solutions, but it's important for people to realize that we pay more of our taxes towards healthcare than Canadians do, and get less health care for it.

Right, and we have much different socioeconomic and political conditions and history to deal with than those countries.

Rewrite the economic and political philosophy of America and undo the effects of the poor decisions we have made previously, and maybe things could be different.