Why EMS degree could be the standard come 2025

DrParasite said:
That's my point exactly. It's not hard to do, unless you don't want to do it. the college level A&P courses are probably the toughest and most time consuming part, but the reality is, if the current providers don't know it, than it's good that they learn it, and if the current providers know it, than it would be a breeze for them.

Just picking on NC, here are the requirements from Carroll CC, with the NRP ones being taken care of by having an NRP cert
View attachment 4695

Emergency Medical Science (EMS) Bridging – Coastal Carolina Community College

www.coastalcarolina.edu www.coastalcarolina.edu

Paramedic, National Registry Paramedic AAS

www.carrollcc.edu www.carrollcc.edu

Emergency Medical Science Bridge Program

The Emergency Medical Science Bridge Program is designed to allow currently certified non-degree paramedics to earn an Associate in Applied Science (A.A.S.) degree in Emergency Medical Science.
www.abtech.edu www.abtech.edu


It's not ridiculously hard, the schools are working with existing people (and I'm sure some places could even find an online program), but you need to be willing to put forth the effort to get it done. And the other courses are all there to make you a better provider and ensure that you meet the new paramedics standards. So if we are going to require this of the next generation, shouldn't the existing generation also step up and raise the standards, and show the new guys how it should be done?
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Well. I did. Others here also did. I’m a recipient and an advocate for upping the Ed.
There are options; heck, someone even said it would be good for them to be forced to get a degree.
Good finds for those in NC.
 
Where would this put the basics? Are we strictly focusing on the paramedics for now?
 
VentMonkey said:
Where would this put the basics? Are we strictly focusing on the paramedics for now?
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I was thinking EMT certification could be part of a two- or four-year degree in a related field -- e.g., public health, athletic training -- rather than the endpoint of an EMS-focused curriculum.
 
that's a completely different argument. this change has been pushed for paramedics; changing the EMT curriculum would be a thread in and of itself.
 
Agree with the above. This topic is about paramedic thresholds.
Basic is basic.
 
The only way to compel increased educational requirements is to tie education to reimbursement. Convincing CMS and major payors to require a degree as a condition of ALS payment would be the most realistic and direct way to get that result.
 
RocketMedic said:
The only way to compel increased educational requirements is to tie education to reimbursement. Convincing CMS and major payors to require a degree as a condition of ALS payment would be the most realistic and direct way to get that result.
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The good news is that since most major payers follow CMS with billing requirements we just have to convince CMS. I think with the ET3 we have a chance to say only xyz educated paramedics are able to decide on alternate destinations or treat and release and bill for that care.
 
RocketMedic said:
The only way to compel increased educational requirements is to tie education to reimbursement. Convincing CMS and major payors to require a degree as a condition of ALS payment would be the most realistic and direct way to get that result.
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PotatoMedic said:
The good news is that since most major payers follow CMS with billing requirements we just have to convince CMS. I think with the ET3 we have a chance to say only xyz educated paramedics are able to decide on alternate destinations or treat and release and bill for that care.
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Except this would never happen because, 1) you are going to need a VERY compelling justification (dramatically improved outcomes and/or dramatically lower costs) in order to get CMS to even consider such a sweeping change to their reimbursement rules, which would never happen because 2) CMS would have to increase their reimbursement significantly under such a requirement in order to even keep EMS agencies open, and 3) every single EMS agency and organization in the county would file class action lawsuits against it.

There is a whole lot of crap that can be said about it, but CMS as an agency has done a pretty solid job of not allowing itself to be politicized and used as a means of enforcing agendas such as this one. Thankfully.
 
I agree with Remi.
Changes to CMS, on top of what he said, is like moving a mountain. I maintain it should come from the NREMT.
 
Achilles said:
FD is hurting enough as it is on members, unless cities are going to pay the extra salary, why get an as in something that's not needed for the job
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It is needed. FD notwithstanding, EMS is a critical part of the medical arena and needs to be on par with everyone else. I think an Associate Degree would be commensurate for paramedics' knowledge level.
 
DrParasite said:
it is, sort of. all medic programs require some form of A&P. All too often this is A&P for EMS, possibly held online, not a full 8 credit college level anatomy and physiology, with lab, where students are educated and evaluated by non-EMS instructors.not even close. As associates degree is 60 credit hours. EMT class is 8 credits (2 days a week, for a semester, from 6pm to 10pm). A&P is 8 credits (4 for part 1, 4 for part 2, including lab). Assuming paramedic is two 4 hour days a week for 12 months, that is 24.... add another 6 for clinical time, and you are are at 46 credits... still 14 short of an associates degree, almost 25% short for a full degree (and most paramedic programs don't require college level A&P with lab).
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You also forgot the Gen Ed requirements that are required by the College such as Psych such as General Psych and Lifespan Development, Sociology, Math such as Statistics, History or Government & Art or Music to round out the Gen Ed requirements.
 
Kavsuvb said:
You also forgot the Gen Ed requirements that are required by the College such as Psych such as General Psych and Lifespan Development, Sociology, Math such as Statistics, History or Government & Art or Music to round out the Gen Ed requirements.
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We discussed those.
 
I guess we’ll just have to wait for more white papers and a push to get the ball rolling on this or wait around to see if states continue doing it themselves.
 
MackTheKnife said:
It is needed. FD notwithstanding, EMS is a critical part of the medical arena and needs to be on par with everyone else. I think an Associate Degree would be commensurate for paramedics' knowledge level.
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Anyone can get a piece of paper, qualifications often outweigh certifications
 
Achilles said:
Anyone can get a piece of paper, qualifications often outweigh certifications
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How would you measure and validate those qualifications in a way that could be shared by, say, prospective employers?
 
CCCSD said:
NREMT....bwahahahahaha. Sorry.
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Lol. Yes, they are laughable, but they *might* be able to become relevant and useful with something like this.
 
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