Why are we often looked down upon as a profession?

[MackTheKnife]

Say's law is a major point of, shall we say, theoretical contention in macro theory, and the idea of Say's law is wayyyy broader than this (i.e. aggregate demand always must equal aggregate supply in the [insert time frame here based on your ideological stripes...obviously it is true in the long term] run)..I could go on and on, but this isn't the place. The point remains...if more people wanted degrees in EMS, more programs would emerge (or the total number of seats would grow), at least in the short to medium term


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You are also correct in your assertion. If more people wanted the degrees, they would indeed be available. I think it's inevitable, at some point, we'll see degrees as de rigeuer for medics, just like nurses. Nurses have an associate as a minimum requirement but that is slowly going by the wayside. 3 of the 4 hospitals require a BSN to get hired in my area. I'm at the 1 hospital that doesn't. I'll complete my BSN at the end of the year and eventually move to 1 of the 3. Better hospitals, better environment overall.

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[MackTheKnife]

A supervisor belongs in a flycar, not on an ambulance. if a supervisor is on an ambulance, they are supervising that ambulance, not a shift. for a department that only has one ambulance in service, sure, but bigger systems should not have supervisors permanently assigned to an ambulance, because while you are transporting that non-emergency patient, you are unable to respond to the major MCI.ehhh, they deal more with fall prevention and overdoses, with the occasional high risk refusal (plus a ton of non-emergency stuff).That was kind of where I was going with that (and it runs contrary to everyone who says paramedics need a 2 year or 4 year degree): if you have the knowledge to pass the basic exam, why should it matter how long you went to school, or what degree you have... if you have enough basic competency to pass the basic competency to pass the exam, shouldn't you get your P card?

The basic problem is the comparison amongst all disciplines in the healthcare community. Physical Therapists and Occupational therapists have Master's degrees while many nurses have an Associate's. We all work side by side in the hospital yet nurse have a higher degree of responsibility and skills yet less educated. This educational disparity leads to the inevitable "WTF"? So the argument goes we nurses all should hold at least a BSN, if not higher to be more equal. Medics have a huge level of skills and autonomy more so than anyone else. Yet a prevalent lack of degrees.

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[EpiEMS]

I think it's inevitable, at some point, we'll see degrees as de rigeuer for medics, just like nurses.

Here's hoping - it ought to be associated with an increase in wages (though not necessarily for any productivity reason).

 

[MackTheKnife]

Here's hoping - it ought to be associated with an increase in wages (though not necessarily for any productivity reason).

I cannot fathom how medics get paid squat and there are morons out there demanding $15/hr for working at McDonalds. How many of these people have seen a child abuse victim, pronounced someone dead, seen a person burned to death? How many have recognized and saved someone in extremis?

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[EpiEMS]

morons out there demanding $15/hr for working at McDonalds

You can demand anything you want

I will say this...many of those folks may find themselves out of jobs. And fortunately/unfortunately, EMS can't substitute capital for labor quite as easily as fast food can, I would wager.

 

[DrParasite]

And fortunately/unfortunately, EMS can't substitute capital for labor quite as easily as fast food can, I would wager.

with the amount of EMTs and paramedics that are being enrolled in classes every semester, and with many less than reputable companies only requiring a valid card and a pulse, that might not be as accurate as you might think, especially if you consider how big and bureaucratic some of the fast food corporations are, and how easy some people can hired on at a private ambulance where HR is all handled by one person.

 

[EpiEMS]

@DrParasite, I guess I don't follow your logic there...

I was trying to get at the point that fast food workers can be easily replaced by machinery (think self service kiosks), while it is highly improbable that, say, even self driving ambulances would require a smaller crew.

 

[DrParasite]

I was trying to get at the point that fast food workers can be easily replaced by machinery (think self service kiosks), while it is highly improbable that, say, even self driving ambulances would require a smaller crew.

Sorry, I thought you meant how replaceable individual workers were, with a relatively low entrance requirement, and plenty of available supply. So if you wanted $15, management could just fire you and replace you with another application in the stack for near minimum wage.

 

[EpiEMS]

Sorry, I thought you meant how replaceable individual workers were, with a relatively low entrance requirement, and plenty of available supply. So if you wanted $15, management could just fire you and replace you with another application in the stack for near minimum wage.

You're not wrong at all, though - I mean, barring a legislative mandate to pay more, you can just hire somebody else!

 

[MikeC]

Reading these kinds of threads makes me want to get out of the profession. It's like I get this feeling that I'm not a "professional" and that the perception of EMS as, poorly trained, certification only, taxi drivers by the health care system is never going to change. I try to stay resilient but part of me really thinks that I am going to fall into that category of medics that leave after less than 5 years for that reason.

I didn't spent much time with making that decision either, especially with how so many paramedics come across regarding their own profession. There is kind of a doom and gloom prognosis, bitterness seems to run rampant with those long-term in the profession, etc.

As for respect, I don't see any disrespect from Physicians or Nurses regarding emergency workers. Just the opposite actually. Maybe it's just the local area.

This area is hurting for ALS workers, and is even paying for school at some companies, but I have a much better opportunity working in nursing in which I got accepted to starting this fall.

In the state I'm in, RNs can sit for the paramedic test and run EMS as an ALS provider. As I enjoy the emergency side of things, I see myself working as either a volunteer or as needed bases as ALS, but the career projection is nursing school not paramedic.

 

[WyMedic]

I didn't spent much time with making that decision either, especially with how so many paramedics come across regarding their own profession. There is kind of a doom and gloom prognosis, bitterness seems to run rampant with those long-term in the profession, etc.

As for respect, I don't see any disrespect from Physicians or Nurses regarding emergency workers. Just the opposite actually. Maybe it's just the local area.

This area is hurting for ALS workers, and is even paying for school at some companies, but I have a much better opportunity working in nursing in which I got accepted to starting this fall.

In the state I'm in, RNs can sit for the paramedic test and run EMS as an ALS provider. As I enjoy the emergency side of things, I see myself working as either a volunteer or as needed bases as ALS, but the career projection is nursing school not paramedic.

I think that's completely reasonable. I really wish that someone had told me years ago that as a nurse I could just sit for the paramedic exam and get certified, I would have done that. I work for a fire based agency (I know I know, they are the devil) but at least my pay and retirement benefits make it more worthwhile. I've looked at PA school some but it just seems so dang competitive that I don't know if I will stand a chance of getting in even with the required science and bachelor's degree.

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