What's next? Fire or Medic?

I seriously hope you are not complaining about ALL those hours it takes to become an EMT or the CEUs to recertify. If you are, then yes you are in the wrong field. EMT is at entry level status. But you have made my point clearly. Imagine if you were a Paramedic or an RN trying to juggle all those titles and responsibilities.
Not complaining one bit, nor am I discounting the skills required for patient care by a EMT-B that you are doing. I chose this field, no one forced me to do any of it. And if you did one little bit of research, you would find that the professional standards park rangers are held to are just as high as any other profession.
 
Why should one be forced to do two totally different jobs? If one wants to be a FF, why should they be a Paramedic?

If one wants to be a Paramedic, why should they be forced to be a FF?

If one wants to be an RN, should they be forced to become a construction worker also to help build the new hospital wing?

I see.. so you relate fire science to construction worker? Wow.. no elitism there at all!

My husband was not 'forced' to be a firefighter.. nor was he 'forced' to become a paramedic in order to be hired by a fire department. He has had a career in Emergency Response. Some of that has been fire.. for which he is highly trained and highly skilled. Some of that is in EMS where he also is highly trained and highly skilled.

He has been an EMS instructor, and a fire officer. By the criteria you set.. those who provide patient care shouldn' be expected to do administrative work.. after all.. what does billing, budget management, fund raising and personnel management have to do with healthcare.. that should be left to those with degrees, training and experience in public administration right? And if you have dual degrees in both.. that means you are doing one poorly?
 
Not complaining one bit, nor am I discounting the skills required for patient care by a EMT-B that you are doing. I chose this field, no one forced me to do any of it. And if you did one little bit of research, you would find that the professional standards park rangers are held to are just as high as any other profession.

I did not say anything against Park Rangers. Coal miners, steel mill and dive boat operators also have first aid training that could be compared to EMT. But, the higher you go in the profession, the more it should become a dedication and committment. That is why we have specialists in almost every profession including medicine.
 
I did not say anything against Park Rangers. Coal miners, steel mill and dive boat operators also have first aid training that could be compared to EMT. But, the higher you go in the profession, the more it should become a dedication and committment. That is why we have specialists in almost every profession including medicine.

So now I am not dedicated?
Elitist snobbery.
 
I see.. so you relate fire science to construction worker? Wow.. no elitism there at all!

My husband was not 'forced' to be a firefighter.. nor was he 'forced' to become a paramedic in order to be hired by a fire department. He has had a career in Emergency Response. Some of that has been fire.. for which he is highly trained and highly skilled. Some of that is in EMS where he also is highly trained and highly skilled.

He has been an EMS instructor, and a fire officer. By the criteria you set.. those who provide patient care shouldn' be expected to do administrative work.. after all.. what does billing, budget management, fund raising and personnel management have to do with healthcare.. that should be left to those with degrees, training and experience in public administration right? And if you have dual degrees in both.. that means you are doing one poorly?

Your husband's situation is different than others. Your own situation is also different in that as a volunteer, if a paid FD took over the volunteer EMS in your area, you would not be out of a paid job and have to relocate or change careers.

Do you honestly think those 50 year old Paramedics in Florida, Calfornia or Pennsylvania are looking forward to the Fire academy? Do you think they want to change careers totally?

Dual degrees? You mean like Paramedic and RRT or RN? They are both medical. RN and RRT both require the same prerequisites that SHOULD be required of a Paramedic. I was also a FF and I did not see anything that pertained to medicine in any of the fire science classes I have ever taken. So you too believe that the Paramedic is little more than a trained and skilled advanced first-aider who requires no education unless they want to push paper? That is exactly the point FDs have been making all along and why medical professionals are not in agreement with it. I suppose those on this forum that bothered to get an education along with the training and skills wasted their time if they want to be just a paramedic especially with the FDs.

So now I am not dedicated?
Elitist snobbery.

You yourself stated your job as Park Ranger and not EMT - medical professional.
 
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Y

You yourself stated your job as Park Ranger and not EMT - medical professional.

Yep, Park Ranger. Skill set includes, EMT, structural/wildland fire/LE commission. And my B.A. and B.S. degrees. And by your standards, not a professional. Lord help the park visitor who falls prey to the non-professional EMT-B
 
So take a moment and be honest with us, so that others may learn and maybe do or not do the same things as you have.




If firefighting is your goal, then why did you go to EMT school first?
Did you do any career or job market research prior to going to school?
Did you enjoy EMT class and your clinicals; did it make you want more?

I guess I based it on what I was told. At the time, I was living in Orlando, and there were no current openings for fire school. Everything had a waiting list, so I did EMT first.

Currently, I'm in Saint Augustine, and was considering First Coast Technical Institute. They have classes that start in May and aren't even filled up yet. They don't check your driving record either.

What makes you think your chances of getting hired in CO are any better than FL?
Do you think there are less EMT-Bs there?

Essentially, yes. That's all I was thinking, was that there were more available positions. Plus I love Colorado, and just figured it to be my state of choice. Also, at the time, I had thought my driving record wouldn't follow me out of state, but I've now found that's not true.

You could relocate within FL and most likely find a job, plus it would be a lot cheaper and you would be in the state where you want to be a firefighter (I presume).

I just feel as if I've already knocked out every possible avenue. Currently I've applied with:

American Ambulance
Liberty Ambulance
Rural Metro
Lake Sumter EMS
SeaWorld
Wet 'N Wild
Universal Studios
On-Site Medical Services

And of course, my resume can't go into the fire department since I don't have fire standards.

I just feel like I'm completely out of choices in this state, especially due to my driving record. In addition to those, I also applied at:

Saint Vincent's Hospital
Flagler Hospital
Orlando Regional Hospital
Florida Hospital

All of which I applied for both EMT, ER Tech, and Patient Care Tech positions.


Someone help.
 
So what do you want to do?

Rather, where do you want to live and work?

Forget all the other stuff for a moment and answer where you wish to live.


Also, how old are you and what does your resume look like. Feel free to PM me.

Did any of those places give you an interview?
 
Answer

Firefighter!!!!!!!!
 
I
All of which I applied for both EMT, ER Tech, and Patient Care Tech positions.

In Florida, the CNA (Certified Nursing Assistant) may be required or helpful to land an ER Tech job. It is definitely required for Patient Care Tech along with a few hundred more hours (approx 600 - 700) of school.

http://www.scc-fl.edu/nursing/media/nursingassistant-packet.pdf

http://www.fccj.org/prospective/programs/data07_08/5707.html

If you stay in Florida, you will probably need both your FF and Paramedic certs, so why not pick a community college that offers both and do some education while you are making up your mind and letting the time run out on you driving record?
 
Jeez, seems as though my yearly LE refresher, bi-annual EMT refresher and monthly LE, fire and EMS training is just not enough to keep people safe or care for patients, not to mention my 17 years of experience. Guess I am in the wrong field. These four skill sets are required of a park ranger to maintain employment. Parks aren't cities where the hospital is minutes away. Minimum ground transport is more than an hour. Flight is 1.5 hours minimum.

No. Its not enough, unless you are just providing initial care.

EMT is useful as first aid class, like Ventmedic has said. It is not a professional medical certification.
 
Yep, Park Ranger. Skill set includes, EMT, structural/wildland fire/LE commission. And my B.A. and B.S. degrees. And by your standards, not a professional. Lord help the park visitor who falls prey to the non-professional EMT-B

I detected no snobbery or elitism, and no one said you were not a professional. You are a park professional, not a medical professional. Are you being belligerent when faced with this? Im confused.
 
Your husband's situation is different than others. Your own situation is also different in that as a volunteer, if a paid FD took over the volunteer EMS in your area, you would not be out of a paid job and have to relocate or change careers. Do you honestly think those 50 year old Paramedics in Florida, Calfornia or Pennsylvania are looking forward to the Fire academy? Do you think they want to change careers totally?

That's a cop out to say that my situation is different. If you are making global statements about fire and EMS you can't qualify it by saying that oh.. your situation is different. Its precisely these types of differences that make your global statements of Fire and EMS incompatibility inaccurate. Changes happen in workplaces. Job conditions change. If I work for a private ambulance service and a big chain takes it over, my working conditions will change. This happens outside of EMS and it happens within it. There is obviously some reason why the government in your area sees an advantage to changing the way EMS is handled. Yes, when services are consolidated, people will lose their jobs. If you want to whine about it, you can get in line behind all the .com workers/consultants who lost their jobs in the 90's, the automotive workers who are losing their jobs now and the rest of America. If you are going to feed at the public trough, you better be prepared for the aftermath.


Dual degrees? You mean like Paramedic and RRT or RN? they are both medical.
No, I mean like degrees in nursing and public administration or a degree in business or healthcare admin.. To say that a medical professional has to be strictly medical isn't accurate. Look at your department heads.. how many of them have non-medical degrees in combination with their healthcare licence or cert. You did not answer my question about the relevancy of paper pushing, budget, finance, personnel, to a medical degree.

So you too believe that the Paramedic is little more than a trained and skilled advanced first-aider who requires no education unless they want to push paper?

Don't believe I have ever said anything even remotely like that. I think that paramedicine is a highly skilled, highly technical field. I believe that the training that those who take it seriously get is an ongoing committment and not merely getting their ticket punched so they can sit on their *** as a firefighter for the next 30 years. Most of the paramedics I know are deeply committed to their work and the education that supports it. My disagreement with your posts is that you seem to assume that fire and ems are mutually exclusive. I do not. I belieive that its possible to have both. You for some reason do not.

That is exactly the point FDs have been making all along and why medical professionals are not in agreement with it. I suppose those on this forum that bothered to get an education along with the training and skills wasted their time if they want to be just a paramedic especially with the FDs.

If a particular FD is saying that their medics do not need to be skilled, that is an issue with that particular department and an issue as I have repeatedly stated of expected levels of performance not an issue of Fire vs EMS. If the level of skill and training is set at a high mark, the employees will meet that level. If the budgetary constraints of your area do not allow for maintaining two separate 24/7 emergency response systems, one for fire and a second for ems, then your area will either have to reallocate funds or raise more money or accept that the elected officials have made a financial decision based on what they believe to be in the best interests of their constituents.

To make sweeping statements about fire service is inaccurate. Even if other 'healthcare professionals' are willing to jump on the Hammer The Firefighters Bandwagon. Other systems have made it work, that means that your's can too.




You yourself stated your job as Park Ranger and not EMT - medical professional.[/QUOTE]
 
I take issue with fire department paramedics. They make it impossible for me to find a well paying job after I finish school, and they bring standards down across the board. They take EMS away from those who would see it as a career in medicine and combine it under the name "emergency services". I do not believe you can be effective as both.
 
I take issue with fire department paramedics. They make it impossible for me to find a well paying job after I finish school, and they bring standards down across the board. They take EMS away from those who would see it as a career in medicine and combine it under the name "emergency services". I do not believe you can be effective as both.

It is not the medics who make it impossible for you to find a well paying job.. it is the economic climate that does that.. the combination of services by a government entity is a decision being made by those who pay the salaries. Someone who is willing and able to do both well.. and they are out there merely raises the bar.
 
This one calls for all of them
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So what do you want to do?

Rather, where do you want to live and work?

Forget all the other stuff for a moment and answer where you wish to live.


Also, how old are you and what does your resume look like. Feel free to PM me.

Did any of those places give you an interview?

I can't really say where I truly want to live, because I'm still not certain. Part of me wants to stay in Florida, but part of me doesn't. So it's either: Florida, Colorado, or North Carolina. One of those.

NONE of those places gave me an interview. I even called each place to check on the status of my application, and also went in to speak with someone in person.

23 years old, FL EMT cert, national registry EMT, redcross lifeguard cert, and cpr/aed of course. Worked as a lifeguard for nearly a year (not sure if that helps?). no experience as an EMT yet obviously.

Thanks for your help man :)
 
Anyone here watch that new movie The Day the Earth Stood Still? With keanu reeves?

"Change comes on the precipous of disaster"
 
No, I mean like degrees in nursing and public administration or a degree in business or healthcare admin.. To say that a medical professional has to be strictly medical isn't accurate. Look at your department heads.. how many of them have non-medical degrees in combination with their healthcare licence or cert. You did not answer my question about the relevancy of paper pushing, budget, finance, personnel, to a medical degree.

That depends on where you are looking. In the FD, no one that I can think of has higher than an Associates in EMS. The higher Education is in Business or Fire Science.

In the hospital, all licensed health care professionals will usually have a degree in their health care profession to even gain entry into their field. Most will have at least a Bachelors or Masters in their healthcare profession before gaining another similar degree in another discipline like business. A few "cert" healthcare providers like LVNs might still be around in some areas but generally not in acute medicine.

You emphasize training and skills. You also believe that all FDs are equal to the small FDs in your area. Again, FDs, even in Washington have undergone big changes. You town may be the exception due to its size. I am not talking about a little town FD with 20 - 30 FFs with a few paramedics. The FDs in the cities may have 2000 employees and over 1000 of those are Paramedics. These may be typical for several counties within a state.

There is obviously some reason why the government in your area sees an advantage to changing the way EMS is handled.

Are you really living in such a perfect work or just so isolated that you actually believe the government will do "what is best"? Why do you think various organizations have lobbyists to get their special agendas passed?

You did not answer my question about the relevancy of paper pushing, budget, finance, personnel, to a medical degree.

In most professional healthcare degrees, a student is introduced to Healthcare finance and law 101. They are expected to know where the money comes from to stay a viable profession and how to reinvent itself when necessary. All of the allied health professions in a hospital act as many separate businesses. Our charting is directed at reimbursment. Everyone is also responsible for Qualty Control and Assurance to meet the many, many requirements of the various accrediting agencies. This is in addition to medical responsibilites. Even physicians must do a huge amount of paperwork besides their regular patient care duties. To be a medical professional, you must have a broad working knowledge of the business you are in. That comes with education.
 
I propose this. To be able to enter the Fire Service, one should possess a degree in Fire Science, to be a Paramedic within the Fire Service also have a degree in EMS. For officer level; minimal a Baccalaureate in Fire Science and Chief a Masters in Business (municipal) Administration.

Wonder why a degree is not required in majority of Fire Services? It's not a true profession; rather a trade/vocation. Hence, the difference between medical profession and vocation(s). Until Fire requires such they are simply a trade (blue collar). There is nothing wrong with that; but let's not confuse and attempt to interact two different working requirements.

Let's get EMS back into medicine. The main content and intent is medicine, not rescue, nor fire suppression, nor anything related to public service. In comparison all hospital personnel are trained in fire suppression (use of fire extinguisher) and rescue (removal of patients) would we consider them firefighters?

The reason cities use Fire Service is simple. Not because its better, more progressive, faster. They assume it's cheaper. When in reality, if truly investigated it costs more.

I am not against Fire Service and rally for them for their job. Fire suppression and rescue, prevention. Sure, medical first responder until EMS arrives or to assist. Again, one can only be proficient in so many things. You cannot assure me that one can be proficient in fire suppression, hazardous material, rescue techniques, and then emergency medicine?

Again, lets follow other country example. EMS should be an individual agency. The response(s) are almost four times in number of fire suppression and as well can sustain itself financially or at least have lower budget. In comparison to fire services only financial grace is ISO ratings for insurance purposes.

The more we push EMS as an individual provider the more we will see those that are truly interested in providing medical care. This will also allow fire services to focus upon their job as well.

R/r911
 
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