What Would You Buy and Why?

[purdue1014]

Hi All,

Let's say you are in charge of starting up a brand new collegiate EMS group. This group would be a quick reponse BLS team with a medical director and online medical control from the nearby ED, not doing ALS or transports (if needed, the local FD would be called). Said college is in an urban environment with approximately 8K undergraduate students. You would use some sort of cart to respond to calls.

Let's say you had $10K to cover all start up costs plus supplies for 2 semesters of operations, not to include the purchase of a golf cart (that would be separate). What supplies/equipment/pagers or radios would you buy and why? While this is still theoretical at this point, is it possible to get by on 10K for a year?

Thanks,

Purdue

 

[Sasha]

Textbooks.

 

[STXmedic]

Textbooks.

10k should just about cover that.

 

[firetender]

10k should just about cover that.

$10K should just about cover the cost of insurance.

 

[usafmedic45]

Hi All,

Let's say you are in charge of starting up a brand new collegiate EMS group. This group would be a quick reponse BLS team with a medical director and online medical control from the nearby ED, not doing ALS or transports (if needed, the local FD would be called). Said college is in an urban environment with approximately 8K undergraduate students. You would use some sort of cart to respond to calls.

Let's say you had $10K to cover all start up costs plus supplies for 2 semesters of operations, not to include the purchase of a golf cart (that would be separate). What supplies/equipment/pagers or radios would you buy and why?

Four things....
1. Ask yourself, do you really need an EMS group on campus for something other than the "cool" factor? Read as: Is there a documented need for such a unit? That's what the university is going to ask before they start letting you run around. Honestly, in most situations, the answer is "no".
2. Find out what the local campus police, fire and EMS are using and plan on having the lowest end communications gear that will allow you to talk to them. Don't get fancy. Also make sure the agencies you are going to be working with (police, fire, EMS, campus administration) ALL- every last freaking one of them- support you whole hog or you are screwed.
3. The state is going to mandate what you have to have. Get ahold of them and ask for the state minimum equipment list for a non-transport EMS unit at the BLS level. Honestly, you have no reason to get above the first responder level on a campus like Purdue. Lafayette, relatively speaking, is one of the few cities in this G-d forsaken state that has any clue how to organize emergency personnel. Also find out who the local EMS medical director and talk to him or her before you run with this. You're going to need them on your side too.
4. Where the heck are you going to get said $10,000?

While this is still theoretical at this point, is it possible to get by on 10K for a year?

Operating costs for a year for a unit that might actually beat the local EMS to 10 calls a year and do standby at home sporting events? Yeah. I am pretty sure it can be done. ^_^ The initial equipment outlay is what is going to kick your *** on this. Once that's taken care of most of your expense is going to be disposable items and that'll be mostly band-aids, maybe a couple rolls of gauze and whatever you choose to clean up drunks with.

$10K should just about cover the cost of insurance.

If he somehow manages to get this approved (which I put as about as likely as my chances of being elected Pope), I believe he would fall under the university's insurance. Not certain on that though....

 

[Melclin]

Why on earth does a uni need its own EMS? Whats wrong with the EMS coverage from the local agency?

EDIT: beat me to it USAF.

What exactly is the purpose of uni EMS? If its just to turn up first and sit there fumbling with the (?unnecessary) 15LPM of oxygen while you try to look important before someone who actually knows what they're doing turns up, why bother. Spend the money on something more useful like a party with free beer and some kind of theme that legitimizes women wearing next to no clothes.

 

[MEDIC802]

check out the mini ambulance @ http://www.asap911.com/ they range any where from $30,000 to $60,000 hard to justify for the price but the "cool Value" is really good. I am not "plugging this company" just some info I came across a few years back when researching equipment to upgrade our event medical management.
The service I work for provides ALL ems coverage for the university and all sporting and student events, their are no "EMS clubs" on campus, they would probably just get in the way.

 

[EMSDude54343]

I would contact some other universities and ask what they do, and how they operate, how much it costs them to operate. 10k should be fine but your prob looking a little more than that for start up costs. and is a golf cart the way to go? what if its raining or snowing, or 10 degrees outside. I would get with the local med control and see what they would alow you to do and what your state requires you to carry. Also when you talk to other schools, ask them, what would they have done differant when starting up, and what dont they like about the way they run.

as for radios... who will be dispatching you? local ambulance service? if so then figure out what type of system they use and what radios are compatible.

When you present this to your oversight commitee (or whoever) make sure you have plenty of documentation from others who do the same thing and edit your proposal a million times to fill in all the holes and gaps. Also it helps if the local agencies who normally respond to your campus are on your side, it will help big time in getting your idea approved.
Good Luck


also how will you stay sustainable, will you charge for your service? will it be free? who will run it, volunteer students or part time personell from surrounding agencies? these are some types of questions they will ask before even considering saying yes to your propsal.

 

[usafmedic45]

Why on earth does a uni need its own EMS? Whats wrong with the EMS coverage from the local agency?

Some campuses do have a need for it due to their size and/or location. However, far more unis have a campus EMS group than meet that criteria.

they would probably just get in the way.

That's been my experience as well.

 

[firetender]

If he somehow manages to get this approved (which I put as about as likely as my chances of being elected Pope), I believe he would fall under the university's insurance. Not certain on that though....

...and I wouldn't be surprised if that would be the University's out. This is an activity separate from fire suppression and medical transport, where there are standardized policies under a University's umbrella.

It was suggested you find other models in operation and I agree, it may save you worries like this.
Good Fortune!

 

[usafmedic45]

...and I wouldn't be surprised if that would be the University's out.

No, the university's out will probably be "Get lost kid. We don't have any money for this." My fiancee's dad and stepmom both work up there and Purdue is cutting things pretty deeply to make their budget work.

Honestly, I think once the OP realizes this isn't going to be exciting or high speed or anything like that- in fact, it's going to be :censored::censored::censored::censored:load of work for very little patient contact- the idea will fade away.

It was suggested you find other models in operation and I agree, it may save you worries like this.

NCEMSF.org

 

[Melclin]

Some campuses do have a need for it due to their size and/or location. However, far more unis have a campus EMS group than meet that criteria. .

My incredulity probably stems from EMS here being the domain of large state mandated organizations, not something that a bunch of like minded people band together to create.

If they are so far away from proper EMS/hospitals with enough problems to warrant care, a bunch or vollies with bandages running around doesn't help matters. They should have their own medical staff.

 

[usafmedic45]

My incredulity probably stems from EMS here being the domain of large state mandated organizations, not something that a bunch of like minded people band together to create.

If they are so far away from proper EMS/hospitals with enough problems to warrant care, a bunch or vollies with bandages running around doesn't help matters. They should have their own medical staff.

Welcome to American EMS. We don't solve problems, we sometimes cause them by focusing on getting our adrenaline fix.

 

[Sasha]

If he somehow manages to get this approved (which I put as about as likely as my chances of being elected Pope), I believe he would fall under the university's insurance. Not certain on that though....

Please don't run for Pope. You would burst into flames the minute you walked into a church.

I don't think it's fair to assume that the OP wouldn't know what they were doing and is only in it for the excitement and coolness factor.. I don't see anything in the OP that indicates one way or another, and perhaps there is a need for campus EMS at his university. A little harsh, no?

 

[medicdan]

There are dozens, if not hundreds of college campuses with their own student-operated EMS groups in the US, and they all operate slightly differently, according to their campus need.

In fact, I manage one. We understand our role to be that of first responders (even though we are all EMTs), and a buffer-of sorts for the city EMS system and a safety net for the campus. Only 18% or so of our calls are ETOH or drug related, with about 35% related to isolated muscular/bone/joint injuries. Many of these students/patients simply want an ice pack and ACE bandage, and strongly do not want to go to the hospital, or certainly do not need an ALS ambulance. We get many refusals (as a testament to our call types, not coercion, and with medical control consultation, if necessary), but also recognize what we cannot and will not handle.

When we do roll a city ALS truck, we complete all of the scene assessment before they arrive. We generally meet them at the door of the building with a completely loaded patient, at least one set of vitals, full HPI, PMH, Meds and allergies, and any pertinent treatments started. The truck sits on scene for a minute or two completing their own assessment, and is on their way. We work hard to reduce the campus' impact on the surrounding community (by taking away their ambulance resources), so cut down on the time that vehicle is out of service.

Purdue-- back to my advice. I recommend giving your first line crews a fairly simply aid pack, with basic bleeding control and splinting materials (gauze, 5x9s, trauma dressings, kilng, cravats), ACE bandages and ice packs, vitals equipment, a pocket mask and a way to call for more help.

I also highly recommended you read ncemsf.org. There is a plethora of information about how other schools have made their systems work, and copies of PCRs, protocols (SOPs) and model descriptions. If you are looking for more help, email STARTUP <at> NCEMSF <dot> org.

Hope this helps!

 

[CAOX3]

Most of the larger universities around here have their own transporting units. It takes the strain off the local EMS system.

Some have paid providers and others use students.

Whatever, if it keeps me from getting up three times a night to cart underage drunks to the hopital then Im all for it.

8k thousand students is going to be a tough sell as Im sure the call volume is small but a first responder unit I dont see a problem with it.

 

[usafmedic45]

perhaps there is a need for campus EMS at his university.

Sasha, I know that university (and more importantly, that city) quite well. There's no need.

I don't think it's fair to assume that the OP wouldn't know what they were doing and is only in it for the excitement and coolness factor..

Well, you're talking about running a tremendous amount of administrative and legal overhead for something that might, MIGHT treat two or three patients a year that would not do just as fine waiting on the local existing emergency services to arrive. Speaking as someone who did handle just a more portion of the administrative burden- both for pay and as a volunteer- at the ages that most people are in college and having these sorts of ideas, unless the OP is eligible for the title "mahatma" odds are pretty great that once he sees that 99.999% of his time as the leader/founder/organizer of this sort of a task is going to be spent keeping the state off his case and running around dealing with the squabbles and other issues that come up whenever you're dealing with a squad made of emotionally immature folks (be they college students or forty to fifty-something year olds). Add that on top of being a full-time student at a very demanding university, and it begins to look even less appealing.

 

[Sasha]

That isnt what im talking about silly the comment was made that hed be fumbling around scene. Just because you dont like his idea is no reason to insult his ability to provide care.

 

[purdue1014]

Hi All,

Thank you for all of your replies, I do appreciate them.

Dan's post below is exactly what we are attempting to do. I have checked in with NCEMSF, as well. I wanted to post here just to help get a diverse amount of viewpoints as possible, to help make the best overall decision.

I have noted the replies and will certainly look into them...

Thanks again,

Purdue

There are dozens, if not hundreds of college campuses with their own student-operated EMS groups in the US, and they all operate slightly differently, according to their campus need.

In fact, I manage one. We understand our role to be that of first responders (even though we are all EMTs), and a buffer-of sorts for the city EMS system and a safety net for the campus. Only 18% or so of our calls are ETOH or drug related, with about 35% related to isolated muscular/bone/joint injuries. Many of these students/patients simply want an ice pack and ACE bandage, and strongly do not want to go to the hospital, or certainly do not need an ALS ambulance. We get many refusals (as a testament to our call types, not coercion, and with medical control consultation, if necessary), but also recognize what we cannot and will not handle.

When we do roll a city ALS truck, we complete all of the scene assessment before they arrive. We generally meet them at the door of the building with a completely loaded patient, at least one set of vitals, full HPI, PMH, Meds and allergies, and any pertinent treatments started. The truck sits on scene for a minute or two completing their own assessment, and is on their way. We work hard to reduce the campus' impact on the surrounding community (by taking away their ambulance resources), so cut down on the time that vehicle is out of service.

Purdue-- back to my advice. I recommend giving your first line crews a fairly simply aid pack, with basic bleeding control and splinting materials (gauze, 5x9s, trauma dressings, kilng, cravats), ACE bandages and ice packs, vitals equipment, a pocket mask and a way to call for more help.

I also highly recommended you read ncemsf.org. There is a plethora of information about how other schools have made their systems work, and copies of PCRs, protocols (SOPs) and model descriptions. If you are looking for more help, email STARTUP <at> NCEMSF <dot> org.

Hope this helps!

 

[firebird226]

If he somehow manages to get this approved (which I put as about as likely as my chances of being elected Pope), I believe he would fall under the university's insurance. Not certain on that though....

This is my first post on EMTLife, but I understand there's a plethora of resources on this site. A little background - my training is currently an NREMT-Paramedic. I was never an EMT-Basic, certified to the -P level senior year of high school/freshman year of college, having worked as a Paramedic throughout college (out of college now).

That being said, what purdue is asking is not out of the norm for many colleges, as was pointed out by emt.dan. The school that I went to for undergrad (name via PM) has over a $250,000 annual budget for it's campus EMS program. We also have two 911 transporting BLS ambulances, in addition to an entirely student run dispatching system that's functional 24/7 (all have been appropriately EMD certified, and not a single member is certified under the NREMT-B level, a very small number to the -P level). In the event of an ALS transport, a private ambulance service is dispatched. Call volume (not necessarily all transports - and takes into account both 911 and non-emergent calls) at the school I was referring to earlier? 1,500 a year

Many of my friends currently in undergrad work for schools with similar EMS agencies. I believe that with appropriate training, medical oversight, and the "go-ahead" from administration, PD, local FD/ALS transport, etc. it's fine for the University to operate it's own EMS agency.

Many FD's hate doing the intox calls that are associated with collegiate EMS, especially when they have a limited number of ambulances, and the town is unable to respond to it's own 911 emergencies because of the EtOH calls. So much so, that at one school my friend goes to, they specifically REQUESTED that the University come up with it's own transport system.

Just my $.02. As emt.dan mentioned, please go to the NCEMSF website - it's an invaluable resource for collegiate EMS startups. (For purdue, not usaf - sorry for the confusion!)

Thanks for reading.