What have I done...

If you have to maintain presence at the station, you have crossed the line from call/volley into career and need to be paid. That's the difference. It is absolutely unreasonable to dictate to someone where and when they have to be present at a fixed location for free. I truly don't understand the mentality of people willing to live that life. If it works for you, go for it but I just don't get it and never will.

I don't look down on volleys so much as recognize that people willing to do my job for free are a significant reason why we can't advance as a profession. How can we demand appropriate compensation as professionals when people will get the training and saddle up for free?

Fortunately, I don't work in an area where we have to deal with this; but this is a real problem in some places...
 
hometownmedic5 said:
How can we demand appropriate compensation as professionals when people will get the training and saddle up for free?
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Counterargument: The majority of firefighters in the U.S. are volunteers, yet the career municipal fire departments are (generally) well paid. Also, if the barrier to entry is so low that people can/are willing to undergo the training but not get paid for it, then wouldn't you argue that the entry requirements (not the volunteers themselves) are the issue? Indeed, who's to say that even if entry requirements rose that people wouldn't volunteer?
 
Just a side note. Volunteers are compensated pretty much only for gas and food where I volunteer. The compensation is $1/hr+$30/call during the week and $2/hr+$50/call during the weekend. That averages out to about $2.50/hr. That is really only enough to pay for gas (I drive 30 minutes to and from) and food (cup of noodles dinners). If I was much older and had more experience there is no way on earth that I'd dedicate so many hours driving and manning the station for so little money. But right now I want some experience for a resume and ultimately to become a better EMT.
 
EpiEMS said:
Counterargument: The majority of firefighters in the U.S. are volunteers, yet the career municipal fire departments are (generally) well paid. Also, if the barrier to entry is so low that people can/are willing to undergo the training but not get paid for it, then wouldn't you argue that the entry requirements (not the volunteers themselves) are the issue? Indeed, who's to say that even if entry requirements rose that people wouldn't volunteer?
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I would agree with a lot of that. I stated that volunteers are a significant part of the problem, not the whole Megillah. Minimal entry and advancement requirements are also a huge hurdle to respectability and professional status.

My issue with the career v. Professional ratios is one of variability in location. That argument makes it seem like all service areas are equal when in fact so much of this country(where you find the most call/volley departments) is sparsely populated. Major cities almost always have career departments. You get the volleys out in the country where the population(i.e. Tax base) can't support a full time dept. just because its happening doesn't mean it's working or appropriate.

So while yes, there may be more non career personnel overall, it's a stats game not an example of "this works so much better"; at least in my opinion.
 
MarilynEagle said:
Just a side note. Volunteers are compensated pretty much only for gas and food where I volunteer. The compensation is $1/hr+$30/call during the week and $2/hr+$50/call during the weekend. That averages out to about $2.50/hr. That is really only enough to pay for gas (I drive 30 minutes to and from) and food (cup of noodles dinners). If I was much older and had more experience there is no way on earth that I'd dedicate so many hours driving and manning the station for so little money. But right now I want some experience for a resume and ultimately to become a better EMT.
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I don't think that it is fair to call that purely volunteer. That is more of a POC or paid-on-call system. While you may not have the run volume to support making bank off of it, you are still getting monetarily compensated for going on runs.
 
MonkeyArrow said:
That is more of a POC or paid-on-call system.
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Might be considered volunteer for DOL purposes (maybe), but I agree - it is really paid on call from a systems design perspective.

hometownmedic5 said:
I would agree with a lot of that. I stated that volunteers are a significant part of the problem, not the whole Megillah. Minimal entry and advancement requirements are also a huge hurdle to respectability and professional status.

My issue with the career v. Professional ratios is one of variability in location. That argument makes it seem like all service areas are equal when in fact so much of this country(where you find the most call/volley departments) is sparsely populated. Major cities almost always have career departments. You get the volleys out in the country where the population(i.e. Tax base) can't support a full time dept. just because its happening doesn't mean it's working or appropriate.

So while yes, there may be more non career personnel overall, it's a stats game not an example of "this works so much better"; at least in my opinion.
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Fair enough. But that variability is the choice of the populace - they pay for schools, don't they? Cops? But they *choose* not to pay for EMS. If they valued it enough to pay, they would.
 
To be honest I don't know how it all works. I am officially listed as a volunteer and everyone just calls it that. There are paid people on staff as well. Maybe the volunteer thing gets around paying minimum wage? Who knows...
 
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