WEMT Cert - usefulness of...

[8jimi8]

Neither is communicating like a human being and a gentleman for dabblers, tough guy, so get over yourself.

Sorry, really didn't even notice you were in this conversation, my comment was about the OP.

I was specifically responding to these items

[...]

A little background - I'm 24, fit, in college part-time, and trying to find a certification of some sort that will help me get through the next 2-5 years while I 'get my career on.'

breaks and bold added by me for emphasis[b/]

If it could be something that adds to whatever I eventually end up 'doing', all the better! I've considered Commerc. Driver's Lic, SCUBA instructor, urban EMT, some sort of NOLS cert, professional assassin (joke! joke!), etc. But most of them sound boring, anti-social, overly time-consuming, and/or soul-numbing (driving truck).

A friend mentioned RMI's WEMT/MPIC as being a very good pathway to expedition/outdoors(SAR, wildland firefighting, oilrig, etc.) employment. I have done SAR, love the outdoors (work in forestry), and have always been interested in doing first responder work, so it sounds great. From what she said there are temporary jobs that I could take and supplement with part-time UrbanEMT work.
Since I am also very interested in working with NOLS or other wilderness programs as an instructor/guide, the work like that also sounds like it could be a good stepping-stone.

got your private message, didn't understand that either. So calm down buddy, my "inhuman" words are not even pointed in your direction.

 

[8jimi8]

The only reason my original comment about EMS not being for dabblers is because the OP, in his original statement, (or let me say I inferred from his OP) left me with a feeling that he is not really interested in EMS as a profession in and of itself, but rather, that he is looking for something he can do as something easy on the side.

Do you think that EMS is in any aspect, easy, or fair game for people who don't see it for what it is... EMERGENCY CARE...?

Seriously? Not for dabblers? C'mon, my barber needs more of an education... And he can't sustain life, only my social life... It is entirely adequate for dabblers, there is not a "holy calling" or whatever else some people seem to believe about this field. I only took an EMT class to get a free ski pass... That doesn't mean that you don't do everything that you take on with 110% commitment, but this isn't rocket surgery. Maybe when we make an EMT-B a 2 year degree, and an EMT-P a 4 year degree, similiar to LPN/RNs... But right now? It's kinda like getting a certificate for welding...

So you think that someone who gets 120 hours of education and admits that they have no interest in or time to continue education or certification should be encouraged to join this industry?

You think we should welcome with warm arms providers who may not have it in their heart to do the job 100%... Do you think that patients might receive a lesser standard of care, if they are treated by providers who are only interested in this as a part-time-temporary gig?

(*edited to add this comment*) And specifically to address your welding comment... If you feel the emt-b certificate is just a blow-off, do you want to perpetuate that perspective by encouraging the disinterested to join the ranks of new emt-b certs?


my final thought, if you just wanted a free ski pass, why do you frequent the forum... you must admit you do have some interest in the field of EMS...

 

[khorosho]

My fault

Notice to all and sundry: just to let you know I have been duly warned and accept it with full humility. I responded harshly to a reply to an entirely different posting. My only intention was to protest what I felt, erroneously, to be unfair derision against prospective entrants into the profession who have no choice but to start somewhere. I hope this does not scratch me from your Christmas lists. For what it's worth, I have been known, on occasion, to play well with others. :blush:

 

[AVPU]

Sorry to reply late....I am new here and just saw this thread. There have been several mentions of Remote Medical Int'l's WEMT and MPIC. For the record, they are very high quality. I took a course this summer from them. Great instructors, fun, and lots of hands-on. Good luck!

 

[Luno]

Hmmmm....

I usually spend some time contemplating my response before firing back, but I've waited long enough...

The only reason my original comment about EMS not being for dabblers is because the OP, in his original statement, (or let me say I inferred from his OP) left me with a feeling that he is not really interested in EMS as a profession in and of itself, but rather, that he is looking for something he can do as something easy on the side.

I'll accept that you inferred...

Do you think that EMS is in any aspect, easy, or fair game for people who don't see it for what it is... EMERGENCY CARE...?

Absolutely, do think it's rocket surgery? The EMT-B job is so easy that it can be taught and executed using simple commands, and even simpler techniques... It's a certificate that can be gained with minimal hands on time, a high school diploma and/or GED, and a short class. (coincidently, I don't think this is right, but rather my opinion of the current state of affairs)

So you think that someone who gets 120 hours of education and admits that they have no interest in or time to continue education or certification should be encouraged to join this industry?

I think that everyone should have a starting place. I also have also seen some of my best EMTs fall into the field by accident, i.e. extra time, need a job, etc... Do you believe that they should have a burning desire to be Johnny and Roy?

You think we should welcome with warm arms providers who may not have it in their heart to do the job 100%... Do you think that patients might receive a lesser standard of care, if they are treated by providers who are only interested in this as a part-time-temporary gig?

To extend your logic, how do you feel about volunteers... (they are only interested in it as a part time gig... They do it to help, but don't make a profession out of it...) Do you feel they might provide substandard care? I don't think that any profession should welcome a prospective employee who does not commit to perform their duties to the best of their abilities, including serving my fries at McDonalds... I however do see the possibilities of someone who wishes to work at this as a job until they can achieve their personal goals.

(*edited to add this comment*) And specifically to address your welding comment... If you feel the emt-b certificate is just a blow-off, do you want to perpetuate that perspective by encouraging the disinterested to join the ranks of new emt-b certs?

Yes, I think that everyone should get first aid certified... And yes, the EMT-B is a blowoff. I fail to see the logic in teaching someone a series of motions, without the knowledge to back up what they are doing. I get fresh EMTs continuously, who can backboard someone, but can't tell me why they are doing it. They can splint, but can't tell me the reasons why you would, or would not splint a fracture. Their A&P is pathetic, and they lack a competant ability to think through the mechanics of trauma on a body, much less the ability to explain to me why they are doing what they are doing. That is an educational FAILURE. That's just injured, lack of understanding of illness is even worse... I believe in further education for our profession, and raising the standards. However, raising standards will weed out the profession, and I'd rather have as big of a pool of applicants and potential interest as possible when that time comes.

my final thought, if you just wanted a free ski pass, why do you frequent the forum... you must admit you do have some interest in the field of EMS...

My final comment... I started because I wanted a free ski pass, what I didn't mention is that I have spent several years in various EMS specialties, and also am an EMS Instructor, Field Trainer, and currently EMS management...

 

[Dreadnought]

Figure this is as good a spot as any

I'm new here, but my question is somewhat related to this topic, so on the offchance that my creation of a new thread would be more cumbersome than posting in here, I'm opting for the latter.

I'm a low ranking infantryman in a US special operations unit, but was recently afforded the opportunity to attend a 4 week EMT-B course which culminated in the taking of the NREMT. Given the level of difference between my job and the civilian EMT-B and the expedited nature of the course, it was a fun challenge and very few of us in the course managed to pass the national test. This was about 5-6 months ago.

However, considering how I'm not a combat medic by trade and cannot actively practice my EMT-B certification (ie I can't actually be an EMT), I realize that I'm constantly forgetting material and minutaea, if you will, that I learned during the course. Now with my current job that doesn't really affect me, as I know what I need to know to able to handle combat casualty situations (TCCC and all that goodness, along with the basic first responder training my unit has a standard and cross training with special operations medics). I know that I can perform to that level, but I still want to be able to maintain all the knowledge and working knowledge that a practicing EMT-B in the civilian world would maintain.

At the moment I'm trying to do this by reading and rereading my prehospital emergency care books, quizzing myself with quiz books and quiz programs, and looking for more material to spark more motivation. Taking bullet notes on books is only so interesting for so long.

Does anyone know any more engaging ways that I can stay up to date with this information and practice my "skills" so to speak? I train up with our medics as often as I can and jump at the opportunity for more training opportunities (hopefully looking at going to the "shoot goats and fix them" school), but I want to do more on my own.

I'm interested in the WEMT certification as it's more practical for my job, really, than the civilian EMT-B standards.

Does anyone recommend any certain books for WEMT?

Are there any courses in the Tacoma/Seattle, Washington area? I ask because maybe I can request permission to attend one and get the extra certification, explaining the practicality of it... I highly doubt it, but I'm willing to try.

Any help would be appreciated, and I apologize for the long-windedness

 

[8jimi8]

The only way not to lose these skills is to practice them. As a nursing student we had two years of assessing and treating patients to prepare to work in the field.

ABCs
eliminate life threats
Head to Toe assessment
ABC's
treat and repeat

i mean... what skills do you feel like you are forgetting? Backboarding and collaring ... you are correct, not quite applicable to your line of duty.

Sounds like you are doing what you need to be doing to keep your information sharp.

Sorry, i don't have a suggestion for good wilderness books EXCEPT for a book called
Medicine for Mountaineering Pretty interesting read, but I'm sure you won't hump that book out with you, but if you are looking for another book to read on your off time, its pretty cool.

 

[wildrivermedic]

books for WEMT

Wilderness Medicine, 5th Edition by Paul S. Auerbach is by far the most interesting and advanced book I've found... it's huge, not a field guide!

The texts used for the WMI WEMT class are pretty basic. NOLS Wilderness Medicine by Tod Schimelpfenig, and Wilderness First Responder: A Text for the Recognition, Treatment, and Prevention of Wilderness Emergencies by Buck Tilton.

Wilderness Medical Society Practice Guidelines for Wilderness Emergency Care by Wilderness Medical Society and William W. Forgey M.D. is good for looking up the accepted practices and protocols, especially if you're setting up medical care for a group in the backcountry.

Would love to hear about others I am missing...

 

[medic8613]

Wilderness EMT

The WEMT training is really good. My initial EMT-B training was a course that combined EMT-Basic and WEMT in one month-long course. Having the WEMT opens a lot of doors in rural areas, and with outdoor organizations like NOLS, Outward Bound, and SOLO. It also shows potential employers in the urban arena that you have gone above expectations, and received extra training. There are also many non-career jobs that WEMT qualifies you for. For example, many smaller summer camps do not have a nurse or physician on staff, and rely on a camp "medic" to take care of the camper's and staff's daily and emergency medical needs.

I firmly believe that without my wilderness training, I would not be nearly as good a medic as I am today. What is taught in WEMT is very useful in the urban world as well, particularly in worst case scenarios like natural and man-made disasters. WEMT focuses on improvised equipment and long term patient care, where as urban EMS relies on standard equipment and short term patient contact. However, when s*** goes sideways, you don't always have the luxury of purpose built equipment and short 10 minute transport times. WFR or WEMT is a must for anyone who spends a lot of time in the middle of nowhere. After working with many EMTs and Paramedics, I feel that those with WEMT training were generally more skilled and competent than those without.

The first thing you need to know is, there are two ways of getting WEMT. Option A is taking a standard "street" EMT-B course, and then taking a WEMT upgrade course. Option B is to take an EMT-B+WEMT course, and get it all done at the same time. If you have taken courses like standard first aid, First Responder, or Wilderness First Responder (WFR), and felt comfortable and had few problems with those courses, then go ahead and do it all at once. If you don't have any first aid or medical education, it may be better to go with option A. There is a lot of material in both EMT-B and WEMT, and I'v seen people become overwhelmed when they try to do both. The pre-requisite for WEMT is EMT-B, high school diploma or GED, and being 18+. Even if you don't end up making a career out of it, the training will serve you well as you explore the wilderness.

For reading, take a look at Wilderness Medicine, published by NOLS. Also the SOLO Wilderness First Responder textbook is very good. These are my go to WEMS reference books. Even though the SOLO book is WFR, the WEMT portion of of the training is essentially WFR with a handful of differences.

As far as additional training goes, that really depends on where you work. If you want to do offshore work, you will probably need to be a Paramedic, and get additional training specific to that environment. For urban EMS work, standard training not included in EMT or WEMT often includes Emergency Vehicle Operations Course (EVOC), National Incident Management System (NIMS), Incident Command System (ICS), hazardous materials training, and/or Basic Trauma Life Support (BTLS). Many agencies will provide this training in house, while others will be more than happy to tell you where to get it. Some of it, like NIMS and ICS, is available online from the Department of Homeland Security.

 

[AVPU]

Well said, medic. I esp second the advice about taking an EMT and then bridging to a WEMT. I took them both as one unit without any medical background and was very overwhelmed.

 

[AVPU]

Wilderness Medicine, 5th Edition by Paul S. Auerbach is by far the most interesting and advanced book I've found... it's huge, not a field guide!

The texts used for the WMI WEMT class are pretty basic. NOLS Wilderness Medicine by Tod Schimelpfenig, and Wilderness First Responder: A Text for the Recognition, Treatment, and Prevention of Wilderness Emergencies by Buck Tilton.

Wilderness Medical Society Practice Guidelines for Wilderness Emergency Care by Wilderness Medical Society and William W. Forgey M.D. is good for looking up the accepted practices and protocols, especially if you're setting up medical care for a group in the backcountry.

Would love to hear about others I am missing...

I have the Auerbach guide. It's good...have referred to it more than once.

More of an interesting, entertaining read is Deep Survival by Laurence Gonzales. A little off-topic, but I think it really sets the mood for how to think and respond to an emergency in the backcountry. True stories of people caught in pretty dire situations that come out ok.

 

[EMSLaw]

I have the Auerbach guide. It's good...have referred to it more than once.

More of an interesting, entertaining read is Deep Survival by Laurence Gonzales. A little off-topic, but I think it really sets the mood for how to think and respond to an emergency in the backcountry. True stories of people caught in pretty dire situations that come out ok.

Thanks for the resources, all. I've been toying with the idea of going for the FAWM one of these days, since the subject matter really interests me.

And everyone knows, if your friend has hypothermia, you cut open the wampa and stuff him inside for warmth.

 

[zmedic]

I thought that was a Tauntaun? From Empire Strikes Back.

 

[EMSLaw]

I thought that was a Tauntaun? From Empire Strikes Back.

You're right! The wampa beast was the thing that tried to eat him, IIRC. My bad, I fail on three hours sleep.

I saw the sleeping bag at thinkgeek, too. It even has a lightsaber zipper.