Virginia Tech Shooting

[Ridryder911]

I assumed anytime a handgun is used, the "gun control" activist comes out. Even if gun control had been in effect, this mentally and deranged person would had figured out a way to cause such demise.

They are suspecting that he was an author of some threatening letters of potential bomb threats. With some basic knowledge, and ability to gather information, we are aware that he would had been able to accomplish that as well if he wanted to.

Instead of focusing on the etiology of the problem, we much rather pass it off for more regulations. It has been reported that suggestions from professors and staff was aware of potential problems of from letters and stories that he had written for class. Even one professor reported her concerns only to be told, that they would have to await until a violent act occurred.

Again, we do not want to attempt to understand the problem. The shooter is now of course being described as a loner, non active or social person with potential problems. Instead of funding gun control, stricter restrictions, maybe we should increase funding for research and treatment of those that apparently have mental disorders. Obviously, there is certain traits, as profilers can compile and describe the psychological problems, yet we cut mental health funding. Maybe we should address more areas of this in schools, promote warning signs, and if someone does present such profile and warnings as was noted, be addressed and investigated for potential problems, and treated if deemed necessary.

R/r 911

 

[fm_emt]

I assumed anytime a handgun is used, the "gun control" activist comes out. Even if gun control had been in effect, this mentally and deranged person would had figured out a way to cause such demise.

Dianne Feinstein and her friends at the Brady Campaign wasted no time in starting up their 'assault weapon ban' rhetoric again.. even though this nutjob was using a handgun.

 

[Stevo]

Where's your pride?

pride goes before the fall....

~S~

 

[Fedmedic]

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand the question.

This question was basically directed toward the entire forum, just to make people think when the topic of gun control and self defense arises.

I was referring to a seminar I once attended. I don't remember the speaker, but it was an excellent seminar.

Basically an analogy. You can choose to be either the wolf(criminal), sheep(victim) or the sheepdog(protector, law enforcement, private citizen with ccw, anyone who makes the choice to protect himself, family and others).

The choice is yours.

 

[SwissEMT]

Fedmedic,

No worries. I am familiar with the analogy, I was rather surprised that you would be asking me the question directly.

 

[Fedmedic]

Fedmedic,

No worries. I am familiar with the analogy, I was rather surprised that you would be asking me the question directly.

My fault, the question wasn't directed at you. By your previous post, I can draw a good idea of which one you are...you might want to get the hair out of your eyes...LOL

 

[firecoins]

I do find it ironic that the assault weapon ban is now a hot topic despite this kid using a handgun. The university made it illegal to have a handgun on campus anyway. The shooter didn't seem to concerned. Of course murder is also illegal and he had no problem doing that either.

 

[Guardian]

Ok, I understand now Swissemt and I COULD NOT agree MORE with you.

I think we've seen time and time again in history that we cannot trust our safety to police, government, whatever. Most of the time, police only get there after the fact and stand over the dead bodies in amazement like any of us would do. The killer chained the doors so no one could leave and the police couldn't get in. The only hope would have been a student/s with a ccw.

I'm seriously thinking of joining the NRA now.

I want to be a sheepdog.

I’m not particularly religious but God bless the families of the murdered Va Tech students.

 

[mace85]

I feared that someone would mistake my comment as me blaming this event on the american populace.

What happened at VA Tech was beyond the control of everyone and every procedure and law that has been enacted by the US government. There is simply no way for the government to be able to prevent such illogical acts.
Gun control laws have done nothing but keep firearms out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Murderers, gang members and thieves don't sit there saying "oh gosh darnit, I can't get my piece until I file a 43-11 with my local police department, guess I'll have to find a more legitimate way to earn my bread" Gun laws in this case have done nothing if not made the situation worse. Had one, maybe even two students on campus been allowed to hold their CCW right on campus, then MAYBE this would have been ended sooner. In active shooter situations, frontsights need to be on target AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, regardless of who's. As stated before, gun control only keeps the guns away from the good people.VA Tech was a gun-free zone, which meant that the safety of the 20,000+ student and staff body was ENTIRELY in the hands of a few VA Tech PD.
Campus Police departments are ill-equipped to handle situations of this magnitude. They are not given adequate training to handle situations such as this. I have worked in conjunction with one of the most well funded collegiate police departments in the Northeast and have found that they still remained an ineffective policing force. As with any department, officers were not granted adequate amounts of range time, nor were they sent to private training companies to train for situations such as this and liked the mindset.

Am I the only one who has seen the united states populaces' atitude shift towards an atitude of entrusting their well being solely in law enforcement and the government and no longer on a personal level.

Am I the only one who when faced with a situation where my life is going to be taken from me, will act regardless of the consequences? In a situation such as this event, you can bet your *** I will be the first up with my HAK hoping to go down fighting. I believe it is my duty as a resident of this nation to be willing to sacrifice my own life in the hopes to preserve the life of another American. Am I some militia member, gun toting idiot? No!
We are AMERICA, what has led to us becoming so submissive? We have turned into a flock of livestock due to guidelines which are carved into our minds.
This is the mindset I speak of.
Our government and law enforcement CANNOT ensure our safety at every waking moment. In situations where time means lives, only immediate action can make a difference.
Passengers of American Airlines Flight 93 are the greatest americans of this century in my eyes. These men and women, though knowingly doomed refused to stay submissive to the hijackers and decided to take it into their own hands. The lines "Are you guys ready? Let's roll" will forever be the words of heroes.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The state of Virginia allows CCW on campus. V Tech does not allow students to carry for fear of expulsion. I think the V Tech's rules cost 32 lives that day. In my class of 22 students 10 f us have our CCW permits. Like you said if the excrement hit the oscillating rotator in a class room front sights need to be on threat ASAP. In mine there would be 10 front sights. But thanks to campus policy, we are not able to be responsible for our own safety.

Don't get me wrong, the shooter is solely responsible for these acts. But the school effectively created an population of helpless victims. To me that is unacceptable.

 

[Guardian]

I couldn't have said it better myself. The state of Virginia allows CCW on campus. V Tech does not allow students to carry for fear of expulsion. I think the V Tech's rules cost 32 lives that day. In my class of 22 students 10 f us have our CCW permits. Like you said if the excrement hit the oscillating rotator in a class room front sights need to be on threat ASAP. In my there would be 10 front sights. But not thanks to campus policies.

Don't get me wrong, the shooter is solely responsible for these acts. But the school effectively created an population of helpless victims. To me that is unacceptable.

couldn't agree more and I'm glad to see such intelligent people on this site.

 

[fm_emt]

Don't get me wrong, the shooter is solely responsible for these acts. But the school effectively created an population of helpless victims. To me that is unacceptable.

People tried to get the state to allow students that are CCW holders to carry on campus. It was defeated.

"Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus.""

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55226

The irony.

 

[mace85]

Look at the poll on that link.... It's amazing.

 

[Summit]

Just remember, Swiss, Guardian, and Rid are talking about prevention... good ideas

Fedmedic asks how we react when prevention fails.

We try to convince our frequent flyer diabetics to be healthier when we see them.

We treat them when they do not take care.

Yes, you should look at how we can prevent the causes of violence and try and catch problems before they expode.

Yes, you should be ready to defend you and yours by any means when the problems end up at the barrel of a gun.

 

[BossyCow]

Wolf, sheep or sheepdog? Which one are you?

Those are the only options?

 

[firecoins]

Usually I a laughing hyina. Where do I fit in?

 

[Stevo]

interesting that a massacre involving guns would result in posters here, people that have to clean up the mess, wishing to proliferate the public with more of them

the mods here say we're not a gun and/or political forum, but just look at how it all affects us, there's no avioding it is there?

imho, the gun insanity here rests on the shoulders of the NRA, which many outside of our borders pick up on quicker than we do

they keep shouting about our gun/militia rights , while the people who own guns involved in these instances are turning us into a police state, taking away our rights

there's no valid reason to own a handgun, aside from LEO's, there's no valid reason to own an assault rifle, aside from being a terrorist, yet there's every valid reason for universal firearms education (which deosn't exist) and licensure (also lacking) because guns are no less lethal than a car

but that NRA yanno, keeps yapping about our 2nd Amd & armaments in the context of being free and having freedoms for those of us that are so friggin' lame betwixt the ears to buy into it

and the Busheviks? well they're mighty chummy with the NRA , seems a few 6-zero lunches have gone down there eh?

i mean, if anyone here thinks that a citizen militia comprised of a bunch of scarecrows with semi-auto handguns and hunting rifles are going to take down a rouge government with howitzers and blackhawks , they're truly deluded

and to further insist that arming the public to the gills would result in less crime is about as rational as fornicating for virginity, inasmuch as isolated incidents of armed citizenry warding off predators are always well publicized, the adverse 'incident gone wrong' tends to be all the more prevalent.

Christ on a cracker, how many of us have had to see that here?

If the statistical facts where that they have indeed been effective against the esculating crime wave, the NRA would be wearing crowns adorned with it


And to those of you who might think i'm a gun activist, or some wierd leftie, i'm not ok. I own an arsenal , and you can have them all if we never have to see this sort of thing again

i won't feel like my freedoms are being violated at all....
~S~

 

[mace85]

You are a weird lefty....advocate of a gun ban, who owns guns. That either makes you a hypocrite or a weird lefty. You acknowledge that there is no valid reason to own firearms (btw an assault weapon is a fully automatic rifle, there aren't that many in civilian hands. If your gonna tell me I shouldn't own an item learn what the hell you talking about.) yet you say you do, an arsenal in fact. So what is it Stevo, your safe/smart/responsible enough to own firearms but you don't think anyone else should?

I am a gun owner. I am deep in the gun culture in my state. I am not a militia member, and I would never dream of going up against the military. I am a competitive shooter and hold a valid CCW permit. I am a member of the NRA. I HAVE NEVER ERODED ANYBODIES RIGHTS. I HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING TO CREATE A POLICE STATE. I have obeyed all laws, even stupid ones 100%. For you to make such a sweeping generalization about gun owners and the NRA is socially reckless and quite frankly offensive. Not only in this post, but it seems any firearm related thread that comes up.

There is a lot of research about firearm use preventing violent crime. Some sources say as many as 2 million occurrences a year. If you could hold your disdain for the NRA long enough to peruse the website you may discover this yourself. Check out the following books: Thank God I Had a Gun, and More Guns, Less Crime.

This thread will probably get locked. I may get banned. In that case....Rid...thanks for all the info and advice. Guys its been fun.

Stevo you have a post that contains NO FACTS, no research, no citations, and no information. You simply follow the same pattern when you post in these threads. You bash gun owners, you bash the NRA, then you say it's ok after all you own guns, but you would give yours up because they're really really bad. It must be easy to log on, call everyone an idiot, and walk away feeling like a supreme super smart bad-***. I wish life were that easy.

 

[Stevo]

well i'm sure your a standup citizen Mace, but don't you think it's time to think things over when we're offing ourselves more than the terrorists are?

and all i offer is the ban of handguns (which i refuse to own btw)

if this fool had a rifle i'd wager the two hour delay , and subsequent carnage , would have been a lot less

and yes, one can be a gun owner, and find the NRA's stance, political affiliations, and backroom dealings offensive

that's nothing new, and niether is the two dimensional thinking that is it

~S~

 

[Stevo]

to add Mace,
please feel free to include what stats you may have here. i've read/argued them for years , so it's all old hat to me

but here's the kicker, they might not look so bad internally, but they fall flat on their face when viewed side by side with other sane nations externally

in the final tally, the lefties and righties need to both bow down to the realists

what we have doesn't work

~S~

 

[ffemt8978]

Okay, that went nowhere in a hurry.