US vs. Canada Education Requirements

[WolfmanHarris]

I'm glad stable IFT's are a separate industry around here. It keeps the yahoo wannabes from confusing their job with EMS rather than the horizontal taxi service. With the exception of a bariatric treat and return which the IFT companies can't handle, the only IFT's I've done are urgent if not emergent transfers from the local hospital ED to the regional hospital or for an ICU admit. Have learned a tonne from reading these charts or from the escorts on the times we have them.

 

[JPINFV]

It keeps the yahoo wannabes from confusing their job with EMS rather than the horizontal taxi service.

Sorry, are my knuckles dragging a little bit? Yahoooo!

 

[WolfmanHarris]

Perhaps my brush was too wide. See above for criteria to compare against and make your own self-evaluation I suppose.

 

[JPINFV]

Compare with what? You talk about the seperation of IFT and 911 and yahoo wannabies only working for IFT companies. Please don't tell me that you're one of those people who thinks that they get to boss around other providers of the same level simply because of the company you work for.

 

[WolfmanHarris]

No. I come from a system where EMS is staffed with providers with a 2 years of education for BLS and 3 for ALS and where stable IFT exists in the private sector staffed by drivers with first aid or perhaps First Responder and where their vehicles are not considered Ambulances under the law. What I meant was that those without the inclination to professionally practice prehospital care are unlikely to go through two years of school. There are of course exceptions (as there is with anything), but education seems to keep the whacker and wannabes numbers low in EMS.

The criteria I referred to was directed largely to the concept of forging documents to pad bills and otherwise operating in a way that was no providing professional patient centered care.

 

[JPINFV]

Ahh, gotcha. I'm going to place money that you're up in Canada based on the education requirments.

 

[exodus]

No. I come from a system where EMS is staffed with providers with a 2 years of education for BLS and 3 for ALS and where stable IFT exists in the private sector staffed by drivers with first aid or perhaps First Responder and where their vehicles are not considered Ambulances under the law. What I meant was that those without the inclination to professionally practice prehospital care are unlikely to go through two years of school. There are of course exceptions (as there is with anything), but education seems to keep the whacker and wannabes numbers low in EMS.

The criteria I referred to was directed largely to the concept of forging documents to pad bills and otherwise operating in a way that was no providing professional patient centered care.

Please let me know what system this is, because 2 years of education for BLS is absolutely STUPID!

 

[JPINFV]

Please let me know what system this is, because 2 years of education for BLS is absolutely STUPID!

Why?
10characters

 

[WolfmanHarris]

Ontario, Canada. It's my hope though that one day we'll catch up with Australia and switch to a Bachelor's degree as the entry-level. However, to avoid hijacking this too much away from the IFT world, I'm going to leave it there. If you'd like, feel free to PM me.

Cheers.

Edit: I forgot that our levels don't quite match up at ALS. After the three years start to finish to become a Primary Care Paramedic and then an Advanced Care Paramedic, one requires a further 18month to obtain first their flight classification and their Critical Care Paramedic. It's only at those final levels where lab value interpretation, blood products, ventilators, intraortic balloon pumps and all the CCT skills come into play.

 

[exodus]

Why?
10characters

Because EMT-B is pretty much advanced first aid, and even if you recognize a true medical problem, all you can do is give them O2 :/

 

[Sasha]

Because EMT-B is pretty much advanced first aid, and even if you recognize a true medical problem, all you can do is give them O2 :/

With more education comes an increased scope of practice. You want to do more? Learn more.

 

[exodus]

With more education comes an increased scope of practice. You want to do more? Learn more.

For 2 years education as a basic you can't do more. For 2 years education for medic, you can do a lot more. For 3 years Educations as RN you can do a hell of a lot more.

 

[VentMedic]

Because EMT-B is pretty much advanced first aid, and even if you recognize a true medical problem, all you can do is give them O2 :/

Please let me know what system this is, because 2 years of education for BLS is absolutely STUPID!

EMT-B is first-aid and shouldn't even be thought of as "BLS". An entry level provider should have no less then 1 year of education by full time college standards, not tech school hours. That should qualify you for these gurney transports.

Our Paramedic should be no less than a minimum of 2 years of college with an additional year for CCT or Flight. There should be no back room 2 hour or 80 hour CCEMTP PDQ certs or titles allowed.

Someday EMS is going to think in terms of medicine and providing quality patient care rather than "certs".

 

[Sasha]

For 2 years education as a basic you can't do more. For 2 years education for medic, you can do a lot more. For 3 years Educations as RN you can do a hell of a lot more.

Who says? Since no US EMT program is 2 years, how do you know that if that was the standard that the scope wouldn't increase? Have you taken a look at Canada's scope?

 

[WolfmanHarris]

For 2 years education as a basic you can't do more. For 2 years education for medic, you can do a lot more. For 3 years Educations as RN you can do a hell of a lot more.

You're right. Two years for EMT-Basic would be excessive. BLS here = Primary Care Paramedic with a scope that includes (with some variation service to service, but all of this is taught) 3 and 12 lead ECG interpretation, IV starts and maintenance, ASA, Glucagon, NTG, Salbutamol and Epi on top of the usual American BLS scope. Our 80-100 hour long EMR course is more in-line with EMT-Basic, though it's a level that is not used in EMS in Ontario. Some FD's use the level as they provide first response and assistance at some calls, in some areas. (Largely arrests and MVC's) That being said, it's a mistake to be defining how you practice by the toys in the bag; it's the knowledge that's essential and most important.

I feel I may have horribly derailed this, which is a less than illustrious start for a new member. Perhaps someone in charge would prefer moving these last few posts into a new thread before it gets locked or something?

 

[Novocaine]

thread jacking

is rampant

 

[Sasha]

I feel I may have horribly derailed this, which is a less than illustrious start for a new member. Perhaps someone in charge would prefer moving these last few posts into a new thread before it gets locked or something?

Didn't even notice you were new. Welcome to the forum

 

[VentMedic]

You're right. Two years for EMT-Basic would be excessive. BLS here = Primary Care Paramedic with a scope that includes (with some variation service to service, but all of this is taught) 3 and 12 lead ECG interpretation, IV starts and maintenance, ASA, Glucagon, NTG, Salbutamol and Epi on top of the usual American BLS scope. Our 80-100 hour long EMR course is more in-line with EMT-Basic, though it's a level that is not used in EMS in Ontario. Some FD's use the level as they provide first response and assistance at some calls, in some areas. (Largely arrests and MVC's) That being said, it's a mistake to be defining how you practice by the toys in the bag; it's the knowledge that's essential and most important.

Why is a "cert" only measured by the number of skills? Can you imagine if RRTs and RNs counted their skills that they are required to have as well as those that they can potentially have?

It is about the education! A monkey can be trained to do most of the skills EMS providers do. It is the education that helps you tell the two apart.

 

[WolfmanHarris]

Didn't even notice you were new. Welcome to the forum

Thanks. We've met a few times before online. I frequent a couple of other EMS forums under a similar screen name.

Vent, agreed. Though sometimes I wonder if some of the LTC RN's are doing the rest of their profession a disservice by sharing titles.

 

[Sasha]

You wouldn't happen to be Doc Harris, would you?