UK Paramedic heading to CA

[Steveb]

Firstly you will need to have your training recognized, and then probably do some retraining (at your cost) before you an get a paramedic job in Canada. Your best bet would be to get a feel for what province would give your current qualifications the most credit and look at moving there. Your issue will be, nursing is not on the recognized shortage list, so, you would need to get your training recognized, and topped up, before you can apply for a job, which would then need to apply for a labour market option (LMO) to hire you and you would get a temporary work permit (TWP).
From Wikipedia, Paramedics In Canada:
"Paramedic wages in Canada vary depending on province or territory. Paramedics in Alberta will be earning comparable wages to paramedics in the United States, ranging from $35,000 to $40,000 yearly starting out. However, paramedics in Ontario in such regions or cities as Ottawa, Toronto, Peel Region, or Durham, will have an annual salary starting from $60,000 to $75,000 as a Primary Care Paramedic, an Advanced Care Paramedic salary can on average range from $80,000 to $90,000, and Critical Care Paramedics range from $95,000 to $120,000. Education background, experience, and level of practice all are contributing factors to which salary is established."
Posted on http://www.expatforum.com/expats/ca...03-paramedic-england-looking-move-canada.html

 

[Medic Tim]

Firstly you will need to have your training recognized, and then probably do some retraining (at your cost) before you an get a paramedic job in Canada. Your best bet would be to get a feel for what province would give your current qualifications the most credit and look at moving there. Your issue will be, nursing is not on the recognized shortage list, so, you would need to get your training recognized, and topped up, before you can apply for a job, which would then need to apply for a labour market option (LMO) to hire you and you would get a temporary work permit (TWP).
From Wikipedia, Paramedics In Canada:
"Paramedic wages in Canada vary depending on province or territory. Paramedics in Alberta will be earning comparable wages to paramedics in the United States, ranging from $35,000 to $40,000 yearly starting out. However, paramedics in Ontario in such regions or cities as Ottawa, Toronto, Peel Region, or Durham, will have an annual salary starting from $60,000 to $75,000 as a Primary Care Paramedic, an Advanced Care Paramedic salary can on average range from $80,000 to $90,000, and Critical Care Paramedics range from $95,000 to $120,000. Education background, experience, and level of practice all are contributing factors to which salary is established."
Posted on http://www.expatforum.com/expats/ca...03-paramedic-england-looking-move-canada.html

the OP isn't moving to Canada . They are moving to Cali

 

[Steveb]

Woops my bad thanks.

 

[fortsmithman]

Actually He might just be able to get certified as am ACP here in Canada with some additional training.

 

[airborne2chairborne]

Sadly IFTs in Cali tend to get paid more than the 911 companies do. tend to is the key word there's some that start at minimum wage. Well maybe not all that sadly since the only thing I've ever seen AMR EMTs/Paramedics do when responding with fire is tear off pieces of tape for them. That's another thing about cali, private 911 companies dont really work alone. They respond with the fire department, who's paramedics do all of the work. You might want to look into an ER tech position at different hospitals, they pay more.

 

[thegreypilgrim]

Well looks like I'm a bit late to the party here and terrible_one and Anthony have provided you with some really good information.

I will, unfortunately, add to the bad news. Sorry, mate but it's only fair to you.

First of all, here are some links to some organizations that you need to become familiar with:

CALEMSA: state government body regulating EMS for California.
Orange County EMS: regulatory agency for Orange County
San Diego County EMS: regulatory agency for San Diego County
National Registry of EMTs: national level certification and standardizing organization

Look over those sites and familiarize yourself with the information within them. Please feel free to direct questions to anyone here on the board.

So, back to the bad news. As previously stated California is the worst, most backwards state in the US for EMS. It is split up into about 55 county-level regulatory agencies that all operate with near-complete autonomy. That is, they set their own scope of practice, clinical practice guidelines (protocols), policies & procedures, and so on. There is a state-level standard for all of that, but each county is able to add or detract from it to meet their needs. You have to get "accredited" in each one separately in order to work there, which means you have to pay a fee each time.

It is unlikely that the state will recognize your UK qualifications (at least I am unaware of anyone from outside the US who has had success in recognition of prior learning) so you may have to go through one of the local paramedic programs. This by itself would be enough to discourage me from proceeding but it seems you don't have much of a choice. I would contact CALEMSA and see what they can do for you. Be advised, however, that they are grossly understaffed and subject to furloughs due to state budget issues.

Beyond that, you have two options for employment: Fire Departments and Private Ambulance companies (as you have discovered). It is possible to work as an ED tech in a hospital, but this is at the BLS level only. Paramedics are prohibited by state law from working in hospitals at the ALS level (thank the nursing associations for that).

Private Sector: Probably the largest employment sector, and where most new medics start out. AMR and Rural/Metro are the largest companies but the state is dotted with smaller operations. Most privates are IFT-only (yes, our wonderful healthcare system generates an absolutely enormous amount of transfers every day - most of which are completely medically unnecessary and are nothing more than insurance repatriations). Some privates have 911 contracts, but in Orange County this is at the BLS only level. In San Diego Rural/Metro and AMR both have EOAs (exclusive operating areas) for ALS 911 service in the southern part of the county. Regardless you will always be doing transfers as this is the primary source of revenue for these companies.

Pretty much all the privates are rather poorly managed, very unprofessional, very disorganized, and full of disgruntled, burnt-out staff. Wages typically start around $13-14/hour even for paramedics. You are under appreciated and looked down upon by supervisors, hospital staff, and fire dept. personnel whom you respond with. The ambulances themselves are often poorly maintained, with many hundreds of thousands of miles logged on the odometer, and equipment provided is often cheap and of suboptimal quality. Often management is stingy with resupplies and will restrict access to stock rooms. If you are lucky to have stations they are often unhygienic and lacking in basic amenities. Many private companies utilize a staffing system called System Status Management which means you don't respond from a station or fixed-location but are assigned to various "posts" supposedly strategically located throughout the response area. So, basically you get to sit in the ambulance all day bouncing around from post to post in between calls.

Fire Departments: The only employer of any desirability for paramedics, and the reason most people become paramedics in the first place. Pay is about 3-4x what you would see as a private medic. Excellent benefits. No IFTs except for the occasional instance where the hospital itself activates 911 because they have an unstable patient they can't manage and there is no time to call a private to transfer them. Top of the line equipment, ambulances, and immaculate multimillion dollar stations that are nicer than many people's homes. No System Status Management. Management is much more professional and organized and not out to justify its existence by finding infractions with which to exert disciplinary action.

Problem is, literally thousands of people will apply for maybe a handful of positions. Years pass between recruitment periods. If you do get passed the written exam (usually just a civil service exam) and get called in for an interview there are many things that can disqualify you. People have been disqualified before even getting to the interview room for not helping a secretary pick up papers she "accidentally" dropped (a common ruse). Should you be offered a position the probationary period is usually at least a year where you are treated like a slave often to the point of abuse, and can be terminated for any or no reason at all.

Then there is the "firehouse culture" aspect of things. This is difficult to describe. Maybe when you come out to visit schedule a ride along with one of the local departments and just observe the social dynamics of what's going on. Most of these guys do not care about medicine, and really only put up with it because it's what justifies their existence. Some departments are worse than others - indeed, getting assigned to an ambulance or squad is often used as punishment for some mistake you've made. Just something to be aware of.

Honestly, mate, this is not a desirable situation. As much as it sucks to hear this it might be best for you to look into nursing school. Nursing in the US is much different than the UK & Europe and is a much more developed and professional career path. You can even do a lot of work in EMS as an RN such as ground and flight CCT and 911 helicopter medevac. You can even challenge the paramedic qualifying exam as an RN and work as a medic if you wish. You might have more luck with universities here recognizing your qualifications so you can apply to an accelerated BSN program.

Hope this is helpful. Feel free to ask any more questions. PM me if you wish. Good luck.

 

[AnthonyM83]

Fire Departments: The only employer of any desirability for paramedics, and the reason most people become paramedics in the first place.

Overall agree with GreyPrilgrim, except for the above. There are paramedics in some parts of the state that don't do to bad. In some areas, private ambulance can break $100K/yr with only a few OT shifts per month.

I also agree with his conclusion. If I were you, I'd try to get an EMT Basic certification from the state (or take one of those accelerated 3 week programs they have in LA). Start working as an ER tech or other like jobs, while you get more education. Getting a phlebotomy cert can also increase your pay at a number of ER jobs. These might help you out financially and give you networking connections while you figure out your next step.

 

[thegreypilgrim]

Overall agree with GreyPrilgrim, except for the above. There are paramedics in some parts of the state that don't do to bad. In some areas, private ambulance can break $100K/yr with only a few OT shifts per month.

$100k?? Best paying private service I know of is AMR-Ventura and it's nowhere near that. I would be quite happy to be wrong about this though!

 

[ShockableAsystole]

Thank you so much for those replies.

I'm at work at the moment writing this on tapatalk so I'll have to revisit this with a proper reply later.

Contacted California EMS who have had a HPC para come over recently so were very helpful. They will accept my qualification as a equivalent training program making me eligible for the Nremt-p exam which I can then take, then go back to them and allow me to register as a paramedic.

I am definitely thinking that my career progression in the US will be slightly different than if I was staying the UK. The paramedic role here is developing quickly, but Para to RN is impossible without starting over. There aren't really any pathways once you qualify as a paramedic. The US seems much better for this.. RN, PA, medical school. I'll be keeping my options open.

Hadn't considered the 'fire mentality' but surely people who sit through hours of medic school leave with a modicum of passion for patient care!

Do Emt-Ps ever find themselves working HEMS or is that usually nurses then? Over here nurses lack the autonomy for most prehospital work unless they are dual registered ECP's.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Hadn't considered the 'fire mentality' but surely people who sit through hours of medic school leave with a modicum of passion for patient care!

Just wait. You'll be amazed at how little some of those people care. (it's not just California. It's the same in Washington state.)

 

[thegreypilgrim]

Thank you so much for those replies.

I'm at work at the moment writing this on tapatalk so I'll have to revisit this with a proper reply later.

Contacted California EMS who have had a HPC para come over recently so were very helpful. They will accept my qualification as a equivalent training program making me eligible for the Nremt-p exam which I can then take, then go back to them and allow me to register as a paramedic.

Ah, well this is most surprising! But a good surprise no less.

I am definitely thinking that my career progression in the US will be slightly different than if I was staying the UK. The paramedic role here is developing quickly, but Para to RN is impossible without starting over. There aren't really any pathways once you qualify as a paramedic. The US seems much better for this.. RN, PA, medical school. I'll be keeping my options open.

This is a good mentality, because you'll have no other choice! Just to be clear, paramedic licensure counts for very little outside EMS here too. If you end up going RN, PA, MD/DO you're going to be starting completely over. Your bachelor's degree will help you in this regard though, as you may be able to jump into an accelerated BSN program depending on what your coursework was.

Hadn't considered the 'fire mentality' but surely people who sit through hours of medic school leave with a modicum of passion for patient care!

Hahaha...oh I wish this were the case. I guess you just have to see it first hand before you'll believe it. The apathy can be palpable.

Do Emt-Ps ever find themselves working HEMS or is that usually nurses then? Over here nurses lack the autonomy for most prehospital work unless they are dual registered ECP's.

Yes, but it usually requires 3-5 years experience in order to be competitive. Pay is not much better than ground EMS. The state is currently working on a Critical Care Paramedic scope to permit flight medics to provide advanced scope interventions, but as of now only the flight RN can do any of that. The flight medic is limited to whatever scope of practice and protocols are in place at the county in which the service's base of operations is located.

 

[ShockableAsystole]

I should clarify my Paramedic sciences is the equivalent of an AA, my bachelours is in Mechanical Engineering ... Like i said, unrelated and unfortunately not even healthcare; Is this adequate for an accelerated BSN program?

I've got some decisions to make anyway, RN or wait for a position in fire.

 

[ShockableAsystole]

Apologies also for making a thread "all about me".

 

[RocketMedic]

Shockable, you could move your family out here to Southern New Mexico. The Gilas are beautiful when they're not on fire, and paramedic jobs are really, really easy to find (pay is comparable to SoCal)

 

[thegreypilgrim]

I should clarify my Paramedic sciences is the equivalent of an AA, my bachelours is in Mechanical Engineering ... Like i said, unrelated and unfortunately not even healthcare; Is this adequate for an accelerated BSN program?

It's difficult to say as UK and US undergrad degrees are quite different. Our degrees have "prerequisites" which is basically a list of courses (I think you would call them "modules") that have to be completed prior to starting the main degree coursework. For nursing there are a host of basic science modules (mostly life science) that have to be done prior, which I'm not sure Mechanical Engineering would cover.

Here is a list of all accelerated BSN programs in the nation. You may want to contact the admissions departments of each one in your area (which for you would be CS-Long Beach, CS-San Marcos, Concordia, and maybe National...Azusa Pacific and Loma Linda might be doable but that would be a significant commute).

If all else fails, you can look for work in the engineering field which would certainly be more gainful than anything you'd find in EMS. Engineers are in high demand and make good money. See here: median salary of $79k.

 

[fortsmithman]

It's difficult to say as UK and US undergrad degrees are quite different. Our degrees have "prerequisites" which is basically a list of courses (I think you would call them "modules") that have to be completed prior to starting the main degree coursework. For nursing there are a host of basic science modules (mostly life science) that have to be done prior, which I'm not sure Mechanical Engineering would cover.

That's because Canadian high schools and possibly British high schools teach the prerequisites as part of the standard high school curriculum.

 

[DPM]

That's because Canadian high schools and possibly British high schools teach the prerequisites as part of the standard high school curriculum.

This is correct. By the time you get to University in the UK you are only required to study topics / subjects that are actually related to your degree.

 

[thegreypilgrim]

That's because Canadian high schools and possibly British high schools teach the prerequisites as part of the standard high school curriculum.

Yeah that's pretty much the entire developed world outside the US does it this way.

Because of the failure of the American education system, you basically have to repeat high school for the first 2 years of your undergraduate studies.

 

[fortsmithman]

In Canada until the late 1990's the province of Ontario used to have grade 13 which was pretty much first year university. Ontario removed grade 13 to get inline with the rest of Canada.

 

[AnthonyM83]

I've got some decisions to make anyway, RN or wait for a position in fire.

Do both. If you get hired by a FD and start making big bucks, spending the time/money on the RN stuff won't be so bad. And likely you might finish RN school before getting hired by FD. In which case, you'll be able to make two incomes. I know a few people who have followed this route.

$100k?? Best paying private service I know of is AMR-Ventura and it's nowhere near that. I would be quite happy to be wrong about this though!

I always tell people never believe it unless you hear it from the source. I'm not the source...but I have heard this from 2 unrelated medics who used to work up there. Could be exaggeration of course.