Tazering

[Aileana]

wow, sandboxmedic, thanks for the informative post!
would the treatment for someone with mace be the same as that of pepperspray?

 

[BossyCow]

Water-works great in copious amounts (read here, a garden hose). I think its a shame that EMS gets called in to flush eyes out using up multiple bottles of sterile water or saline.:

Great trick is to hook up a nasal cannula to an IV bag and put the spouts over the eyes and let it drain.

 

[firecoins]

Great trick is to hook up a nasal cannula to an IV bag and put the spouts over the eyes and let it drain.

i tried that once and I had a water fountian coming out of my mouth. I looked like a statue. Birds crapped all over me.

 

[BossyCow]

i tried that once and I had a water fountian coming out of my mouth. I looked like a statue. Birds crapped all over me.

Okay, I never said there weren't side effects.... but the real point is.. how did your eyes feel?

 

[medman123]

http://www.taser.com/pages/VideoDetails.aspx?videoid=56

Doesn't that look like it will do alot more damage that they typical pronged tazer? How would you deal with that?

Just wondering how do you deal with someone who has been tazered if any? And what are the effects of it (besides shocking and all that?)

There is 2 "types" one is called a taser one is called a stun gun. One shoots probs and the other is one unit. for the most part they are not lethal(but you never know with previous heath condisions) Here is what happens to you when some one get "taserd" Stun guns use high voltage and low amperage to temporarily disable an attacker for several minutes. The stun gun does not rely on pain for results. The energy stored in the gun is dumped into the attacker's muscles causing them to do a great deal of work rapidly. This rapid work cycle instantly depletes the attacker's blood sugar by converting it to lactic acid. In short, he is unable to produce energy for his muscles, and his body is unable to function properly. The stun gun also interrupts the tiny neurological impulses that control and direct voluntary muscle movement. When the attacker's neuromuscular system is overwhelmed and controlled by the stun gun he loses his balance. Should the attacker be touching you, the current will NOT pass to your body

 

[babygirl2882]

There is 2 "types" one is called a taser one is called a stun gun. One shoots probs and the other is one unit. for the most part they are not lethal(but you never know with previous heath condisions) Here is what happens to you when some one get "taserd" Stun guns use high voltage and low amperage to temporarily disable an attacker for several minutes. The stun gun does not rely on pain for results. The energy stored in the gun is dumped into the attacker's muscles causing them to do a great deal of work rapidly. This rapid work cycle instantly depletes the attacker's blood sugar by converting it to lactic acid. In short, he is unable to produce energy for his muscles, and his body is unable to function properly. The stun gun also interrupts the tiny neurological impulses that control and direct voluntary muscle movement. When the attacker's neuromuscular system is overwhelmed and controlled by the stun gun he loses his balance. Should the attacker be touching you, the current will NOT pass to your body

hu I didn't know that thanks!

 

[Airwaygoddess]

Great answer Medman!! Thank you!

 

[jmaccauley]

There is 2 "types" one is called a taser one is called a stun gun. One shoots probs and the other is one unit. for the most part they are not lethal(but you never know with previous heath condisions) Here is what happens to you when some one get "taserd" Stun guns use high voltage and low amperage to temporarily disable an attacker for several minutes. The stun gun does not rely on pain for results. The energy stored in the gun is dumped into the attacker's muscles causing them to do a great deal of work rapidly. This rapid work cycle instantly depletes the attacker's blood sugar by converting it to lactic acid. In short, he is unable to produce energy for his muscles, and his body is unable to function properly. The stun gun also interrupts the tiny neurological impulses that control and direct voluntary muscle movement. When the attacker's neuromuscular system is overwhelmed and controlled by the stun gun he loses his balance. Should the attacker be touching you, the current will NOT pass to your body

Medman is only half right. A stun gun delivers pain but not incapacitation. A TASER interrupts the communication between the brain and the muscles (neuro-muscular disruption for our scientific friends). A Stun gun hurts and causes a reflexive retraction from the source of the pain. If there is no pain felt or experienced, for any number of reasons, the person can continue to fight or resist the effects. With the TASER, the muscles contract and "seize" in the area between the probes. Although TASER is rated at delivering 50,000 volts, that number is only at the point of origin. When the current passes through or over the body, it is reduced to approximately 5000 volts and less than 4/1000 of an AMP. The newer models (X-26) to about 1800 volts. I have been TASED twice and I'll forego more experimentation thank you. Although I am a healthy adult in relatively good shape, the lingering afteraffects consisted of sore muscles, similar to an intense workout. When the TASER completes it's cycle, I could move just as before. If I could not feel pain, I still would be rendered incapacitated by the TASER. Not so with a stun gun or OC spray. This is the reason police prefer them.
As for abuse, consider this: without those tools, police were frequently forced to use batons or hard physical force to subdue a violent resistor. And as for the deaths cited by the nefarious sources, consider the thousands of suspects who have died in custody over the years where no TASER was ever used. The results were usually attributed to prior med. history, substance psychosis or positional asphyxia. Those same people who were violent in those cases are still the type who resist police officers today.
Also, police officers generally remove the probes on the scene unless they penetrated the face, throat or groin area.

 

[MMiz]

jmaccauley,

The problem is that an officer doesn't take into account one's prior medical history prior to delivering the 50,000 volts of law enforcement goodness.

Just as important, many law enforcement agencies lack proper training in the administration of the Taser. It is not a tool that doesn't do harm. It should be considered part of the force continuum and used appropriately. Unfortunately it's a new fancy tool with little long-term scientific data.

I'm not against the Taser, but I am absolutely against its current implementation in police agencies across the nation. The Taser should not been seen as the law enforcement miracle, but instead as a device that has a specific use and has the proven ability to kill someone.

 

[jmaccauley]

jmaccauley,

The problem is that an officer doesn't take into account one's prior medical history prior to delivering the 50,000 volts of law enforcement goodness.

Just as important, many law enforcement agencies lack proper training in the administration of the Taser. It is not a tool that doesn't do harm. It should be considered part of the force continuum and used appropriately. Unfortunately it's a new fancy tool with little long-term scientific data.

I'm not against the Taser, but I am absolutely against its current implementation in police agencies across the nation. The Taser should not been seen as the law enforcement miracle, but instead as a device that has a specific use and has the proven ability to kill someone.

First of all, no officer is permitted to carry and deploy a TASER without proper training and certification. That is generally accepted by all agencies and required by TASER for liability reasons. Second, the training consists of recognizing it's place on the force continuum and also recognizing the signs and symptoms of Excited Delirium and substance psychosis. It would be impossible under a dynamic and rapidly evolving situation to learn the medical history of a combative subject and even then, it would still be necessary to get that person under control in order for the medical treatment to even begin.
This by no means suggests that some officer will not make a bad decision or fail to recognize the medical emergency, but there really is no proven ability to kill someone merely by deploying a TASER.
I'm not sure what improper implementation of the TASER you are referring to, unless it's just the hysterical writings of ACLU position papers or Amnesty Internationals frequent complaints about any use of force.
Any use of force has the possibility of causing injury, no matter how careful or well trained the officer is. The mistaken belief that cops enjoy torturing people for their amusement is absurd and insulting.

 

[MMiz]

I had the world's longest post typed out... but then lost it. I'm coming back to this thread, but have an errand to run.

 

[BossyCow]

jmaccauley,

The problem is that an officer doesn't take into account one's prior medical history prior to delivering the 50,000 volts of law enforcement goodness.

Hmmmm, I know several cops and they carry guns as well as tasers. I haven't ever heard of any LEO, faced with an agressive, violent, potentially life threatening suspect going.. "Should I take this guys medical history before I pull my gun on him?" A taser is used to subdue the uncooperative, I can't imagine expecting anyone to take into account the medical history of the subject prior to its use. I'm thinking the only thing on the cop's mind is the health of potential victims or his/her own projected safety should this person not be subdued.

 

[jmaccauley]

Quite frankly, if the violent offender has a heart condition what approach is ever safe? Perhaps allowing the subject to continue endangering themselves or others while we await a medical diagnosis? No, we simply get the subject under control first, then let the medical professionals do their thing.

 

[medman123]

hu I didn't know that thanks!

Great answer Medman!! Thank you!

No problem

Medman is only half right. A stun gun delivers pain but not incapacitation. A TASER interrupts the communication between the brain and the muscles (neuro-muscular disruption for our scientific friends). A Stun gun hurts and causes a reflexive retraction from the source of the pain. If there is no pain felt or experienced, for any number of reasons, the person can continue to fight or resist the effects. With the TASER, the muscles contract and "seize" in the area between the probes. Although TASER is rated at delivering 50,000 volts, that number is only at the point of origin. When the current passes through or over the body, it is reduced to approximately 5000 volts and less than 4/1000 of an AMP. The newer models (X-26) to about 1800 volts. I have been TASED twice and I'll forego more experimentation thank you. Although I am a healthy adult in relatively good shape, the lingering afteraffects consisted of sore muscles, similar to an intense workout. When the TASER completes it's cycle, I could move just as before. If I could not feel pain, I still would be rendered incapacitated by the TASER. Not so with a stun gun or OC spray. This is the reason police prefer them.
As for abuse, consider this: without those tools, police were frequently forced to use batons or hard physical force to subdue a violent resistor. And as for the deaths cited by the nefarious sources, consider the thousands of suspects who have died in custody over the years where no TASER was ever used. The results were usually attributed to prior med. history, substance psychosis or positional asphyxia. Those same people who were violent in those cases are still the type who resist police officers today.
Also, police officers generally remove the probes on the scene unless they penetrated the face, throat or groin area.

?

 

[medman123]

sry 2x post

 

[jmaccauley]

Is there a question to my post?

 

[medman123]

how was your exp. different then mine?

 

[DT4EMS]

Hiya Medman

Jerry is a Taser instructor for a South Florida Police Department. That may help clarify

And as far as officers using the Taser in an inappropriate fashion......... I would say it is no differrent than a medic starting a 14ga in the ac when not needed.

Not all of us do it, but some have.

I too take it personal when people make comments that "all" cops or all medics act like a knucklehead.

There are several cases of medics stealing and using narcs. Some have taken them for use and others have taken them to sell. Some cops shouldn't be cops........some medics shouldn't be medics.

 

[jmaccauley]

how was your exp. different then mine?

Well, a stun gun relies on pain complaiance, meaning the subject would have to feel or acknowledge pain. A TASER is not reliant on merely pain, but incapacitation. You may have mixed the two up. Secondly, the TASER does not "dump" the energy into the muscles. It actually forms an electrical circuit which loops from the unit to one probe, then travels through the body to the second probe before heading back to the unit.

I am an instructor and a court recognized expert on stun guns and TASER's. There is often the mistaken belief that they are the same thing. The media likes to take the stun gun shortcut when they write a story. I also feel that giving an answer to a question requires firsthand knowledge, not a guess.

Perhaps such details are not important, unless you are explaining something that you have little direct knowledge of. For me to comment on medical protocol would be unwise because I am a novice in that area. Although I am a BLS Instructor, I never have ridden in an ambulance.

 

[Airwaygoddess]

All I have to say is that this post has given me a lot of great information, and I got to see a patient/ prisoner, (here at the ED for a booking clearance) have the "stun gun" used. (shaped like a service pistol, but bright yellow color)
The patient became a danger to the nursing staff and to the officers. The officers tried other tactics to get the patient to comply before the stun gun was used. The officers were maintained a controlled and professional attitude throughout the entire event. I agree strongly with DT4EMS, there are the good and the bad in every profession, it is just too bad we always hear about the bad ones first and foremost, and hardly hear about all of the good deeds that are done daily. Food for deep thought......-_-