Tazering

babygirl2882

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http://www.taser.com/pages/VideoDetails.aspx?videoid=56

Doesn't that look like it will do alot more damage that they typical pronged tazer? How would you deal with that?

Just wondering how do you deal with someone who has been tazered if any? And what are the effects of it (besides shocking and all that?)
 
That's just scary. I can just imagine it getting stuck in someone's eye.

We have protocols for removing the taser. It's considered a BLS procedure but is usually performed by a Paramedic.

I don't care what anyone says, I think there is a significant abuse of the Taser in the LEO/security field. It's important than it's not anon-lethal weapon, and can kill a person.
 
I do believe JEMS had a article about 2 years ago about Tazers and care of the patient afterwards. Does anybody work for a service that has a specific protocol for post Tazer patients?
 
What about pepper spray? What do you do there?

Anyone know if there is a difference between mace and pepper spray? And what is the difference?

I got these deffinitions: Pepper Spray: A nonlethal aerosol spray made with the pepper derivative oleoresin capiscum; used to cause temporary blindness and incapacitate an attacker; also used as a bear deterrent
And mace: (trademark) a liquid that temporarily disables a person; prepared as an aerosol and sprayed in the face, it irritates the eyes and causes dizziness and immobilization
Is the differance only that mace is a trademark? :D Thanks
 
I don't care what anyone says, I think there is a significant abuse of the Taser in the LEO/security field. It's important than it's not a non-lethal weapon, and can kill a person.
I agree with you...well kinda...I think that it is abused and needs to somehow be stopped but when a situation escalates something needs to be done and if an officer has that choice between a tazer and a gun I think sometimes makes more sense. But I also think that a weapon needs to be created that will stop a suspect but not kill or seriously injure them.
 
I find it interesting that they decided to come up with an option that will be available to LEO's that will work with equipment they already have. I would like to see info that compares it's use to that of the taser guns. Since it increases the range to 100 ft. for the officer to be able to deploy it, I am sure it has more velocity than a traditional taser, but I wonder how much more we are talking about. Once this actually hits the market, I will be interested in reading any literature that comes out after it has been used in "real world" situations.

As for protocols, yes, we have one for tasers, and I am guessing it is pretty standard. Here it is, if you are interested in seeing it:

protocol001.jpg


I personally have only been on 1 or 2 runs where LEOs have tazed our pt. Every time the barb was already out when we arrived, so we didn't do anything regarding that. Does anyone else really go on that many runs involving people being tazed?
 
I don't know if there is an "abuse" issue per-se when it comes to the use of the Taser. I don't think it is any different than any other tool at an officer's disposal.

Matt, you know I love ya man, but I do not believe a single death has been attributed solely to the use of the Taser. More often than not, Cocaine Psycosis, Excited Delirium and Restraint Asphyxia have been the noted causes. Those patients died if it were MACE, OC, Baton, Empty Hand or the Taser.

Many departments have changed policy on how and when to employ/deploy the Taser because of deaths where the Taser was used. I still believe it is a wonderful less-lethal tool at an officers disposal.

There is very little discussion on how many lives the Taser has saved. The reason..... it is not news worthy.

Anyone can hit Jerry MacCauley up with a PM. He is a Taser instructor and stays up with all of the currents regarding it.

As far as the barbs.......... at Branson PD, we remeoved them ouselves unless it was in a "sensitive area" . EMS was called to do a routine set of V/S and the suspect was transported to jail not the ER (unless injuries from the fall required tx).

The difference between OC and Mace is the OC (Pepper). Mace usually was similar to CS (Cinnamon Smoke) back in the day. Tx is copious amounts of water and fresh air. Use baby shampoo if you are getting it off of yourself. Works very well.
 
What about pepper spray? What do you do there?

Anyone know if there is a difference between mace and pepper spray? And what is the difference?

I got these deffinitions: Pepper Spray: A nonlethal aerosol spray made with the pepper derivative oleoresin capiscum; used to cause temporary blindness and incapacitate an attacker; also used as a bear deterrent
And mace: (trademark) a liquid that temporarily disables a person; prepared as an aerosol and sprayed in the face, it irritates the eyes and causes dizziness and immobilization
Is the differance only that mace is a trademark? :D Thanks

Wikipedia said:
Mace is a tear gas in the form of an aerosol spray which propels the lachrymator mixed with a volatile solvent. It is sometimes used as a self-defense device. This form of mace is legal in very few countries, thus its use is becoming uncommon.

The original formulation consisted of 1% CN gas in a solvent of sec-butanol, propylene glycol, cyclohexene, and dipropylene glycol methyl ether. Some formulations now also include Oleoresin Capsicum (active ingredient in pepper spray).

Mace was originally manufactured under the name "Chemical Mace" by Lake Erie Chemical (a former division of Smith & Wesson) in 1962, but is now a registered trademark of Mace Security International. The Mace sold today by Mace Security International is pepper spray rather than tear gas. Many other companies now manufacture similar products.

...

Due to the current brand-name use of the term "Mace" to refer to pepper sprays and the fact that mace is illegal in most Western countries, it is very difficult to find information on traditional mace. "Mace" and "Pepper Spray" are frequently used interchangeably.

Wikipedia isn't always the most accurate source of info, but they have a good integrity policy.


As far as treatment of pepper spray.... they get dispatched to us as a "Burn-Major" call-type. Treat as any chemical burn. Flush with copius amounts of water. If the eyes are involved (usually that's the main problem), remove contact lenses and flush with copious amounts of normal saline. Always flush from bridge of nose and make sure the "run-off" flows down the side of the patient's face (to prevent contaminating the other eye). A 1 Liter Normal Saline IV bag spiked with a nasal cannula works great.

We also carry tetracaine or proparacaine drops (eye anesthetic) to aid in flushing the eyes.
 
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There's some pretty well known video footage of a taser being used on a woman during a Boynton Beach traffic stop. There's a few different videos, and no single one of them gives the complete picture, so I won't embed it here.

Google: Officer McNevin Taser
 
Unless it's in the eye or scrotum we yank it out and put them back in one time's car.

Egg
 
OK, just saw the video. That is beyond cool. It's like the iTASER. I hope our cops get those real soon.

Egg
 
I don't care what anyone says, I think there is a significant abuse of the Taser in the LEO/security field. It's important than it's not a non-lethal weapon, and can kill a person.

Define abuse?

With a brother in LE, I will tell you that cops will frequently pull their taser. Why? Because it gets results much quicker. Why?

A cop confronts a bad guy, gun drawn. The bad guy knows that the cop is going to be very hesitant to pull the trigger cause of all the BS that's going to happen afterwards.

A cop confronts a bad guy, taser drawn. The bad guy knows what a taser is going to do to him and is going to comply with whatever the cop is asking him to do. Why? Cause the cop is going to pull the trigger, the bad guy is going to drop, and he's going to go into cuffs. Why try to fight the inevitable?
 
What is the likelihood of being killed with a Taser?
Chance of death = Total number Taser deaths / Total number times of Taser used
Total number of times Taser used (in the US) = 200,000+
Number of deaths where Taser was a factor, according to coroners (in the US): 23+
(Why do the Greens/Maori Party/Amnesty keep using the ~180 figure? The 23+ is the official opinion of coroners, who's job it is to determine the cause of death and who are professionally trained to do so. The ~180 is simple correlation. This isn't an unprofessional opinion, it isn't even an opinion: In no way does the ~180 number substantiate any sort of causal link between the Taser and the deaths.)
Chance of death = ~0.012%
I thought 50,000 volts was pretty deadly?
The Taser is fundamentally different from, say, the electric chair, because it uses electrical energy to disrupt the nervous system, rather than to destroy tissue (i.e. Cook it). Because all it needs to do is to confuse muscles with random electrical signals to override the electrical signals from the brain, it only needs a very small current. The high voltage is necessary to send that current through the body, but it doesn't carry a lot of energy.
To use an analogy with water, voltage is the pressure of the water, rather than the volume of water. A high-voltage system like the Taser would be like a supersoaker - it's high pressure, but there's not really a heck of a lot of water coming at you.
For practical purposes, the voltage affects how likely the current will zap you, but not how much damage it will cause.
How often will they be used?
http://www.publicaddress.net/default,3456.sm#post3456

I just found this not sure if its true just throwing it out there
Also here is that clip on court tv
http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/red/red_player.html?id=685&link=REDshlk
But check out some othere ones
 
I don't know if there is an "abuse" issue per-se when it comes to the use of the Taser. I don't think it is any different than any other tool at an officer's disposal.

Matt, you know I love ya man, but I do not believe a single death has been attributed solely to the use of the Taser. More often than not, Cocaine Psycosis, Excited Delirium and Restraint Asphyxia have been the noted causes. Those patients died if it were MACE, OC, Baton, Empty Hand or the Taser.

Many departments have changed policy on how and when to employ/deploy the Taser because of deaths where the Taser was used. I still believe it is a wonderful less-lethal tool at an officers disposal.

There is very little discussion on how many lives the Taser has saved. The reason..... it is not news worthy.

Anyone can hit Jerry MacCauley up with a PM. He is a Taser instructor and stays up with all of the currents regarding it.

As far as the barbs.......... at Branson PD, we remeoved them ouselves unless it was in a "sensitive area" . EMS was called to do a routine set of V/S and the suspect was transported to jail not the ER (unless injuries from the fall required tx).

The difference between OC and Mace is the OC (Pepper). Mace usually was similar to CS (Cinnamon Smoke) back in the day. Tx is copious amounts of water and fresh air. Use baby shampoo if you are getting it off of yourself. Works very well.


What's worse to get sprayed with, pepper spray or mace?
 
I think we should be very cautious about giving police this kind of power. Sure, we all enjoyed watching that “lady” get what she deserved. But was it really necessary? It’s not law enforcement’s job to punish. What if you were arguing with a policeman and he took offense and decided to taze you? I like tazers but I think they should only be used under severe circumstances.
 
It’s not law enforcement’s job to punish.

You're right. But correct use of a taser is not to punish. It's to get the suspect/subject to comply with what is being asked.

What if you were arguing with a policeman and he took offense and decided to taze you?

The same as if he hit you with his fist, flashlight, ASP, etc. He should be punished.

Did anyone see (on Fox News) the car chase today in Ft. Lauderdale? When the chase came to an end, quite a few of the officers surrounding the suspect's car had tasers. No one used them. They didn't have to. I'm sure they wanted to, maybe to teach him a lesson. But they didn't.
 
We are not cops. Let one time taze who they like. Never seen someone with the barbs that did not ask for it.

Egg
 
tasers and less than lethal TX

Having spent 7+ years with a SWAT team as a Tactical-Paramedic before coming back to the sandbox, I went through all the training involved with these tools. Up to an including being "Tazed" myself, in fact, that was my surprise birthday present at training 1 day.
Just a few notes on these "less than lethal" items-
Tazer, cannot cause cardiac arrest, if you imagine a phone line with 2 people talking on it, and someone picks up a phone in the middle and yells on it so both
people on either end can't hear each other, is basically how it works. The message between the brain and the muscles gets bombarded by "white noise" basically by the electrical impulse. Just enough to tighten skeletal muscle with no other damage. The few exceptions to this rule are when the barbs get lodged in places they aren't supposed to. In a few cases, i've seen barbs stuck in the eye, or the best was one that stuck in the "tip of the penis" on a bad guy who was combative. The police still let him ride the lightening (gential hit that is), hahaha. Barb removal is fairly simple if youve ever used the "retraction method" for a fishhook (keep in mind, these barbs are much smaller). A medical assessment and evaluation should be performed if the patient has FALLEN post-taze though, just as a CYA for head/neck trauma etc.
"Rubber batons" fired from a SL-1/SL-6 (40mm). These are designed to skip across the ground and hit the legs, normally good for riot situations. Keep in mind a direct hit to the chest/head can be fatal. There have been documented cases #1. where a rubber baton penetrated the abdominal cavity and ended up in the chest of a guy. #2. another was where the baton became lodged in the orbit of an assailant. Keep in mind, these were not skip shots, but direct hits, due to improper use of the tool.
Pepper spray:--baby shampoo works good, on the EMS side of things if you are looking at a gross decon, the cheapest, most effective neutralizing agent I found ( 40+ people) was plain old baking soda and water. This is great, cause all you need is some buckets, hospital sheets can be torn into makeshift rags, and it works fairly quickly. Not a bad idea to have in a couple rapid deployment boxes. My old SWAT unit was in charge of training the new police recruits on several different aspects of the field. As medics we tried many different "agents" for decon in a CS/pepper/tear gas spray exposures on the new recruits. Some myths we found:
Baby wipes: made the burn sting worse, the aloe seemed to open the bodies pores more sealing in the effective agent.
sudocon wipes: $$pricey, work ok if they are fresh, if they've been sitting for a while, tend to dry out in the foil pack (ever grab an alcohol swap and it was dry?), they didnt help me out at all.
Water-works great in copious amounts (read here, a garden hose). I think its a shame that EMS gets called in to flush eyes out using up multiple bottles of sterile water or saline. Lets keep those for burns, or clearing out our suction tubing........
Endnote- The police are consistent, if you act like a donkey, your gonna get treated like an animal. I have very little sympathy for people crying because they got "peppered", they usually did something to deserve it. Unless theres a major anaphylaxis/resp event going on, let them ride it out (personal opinion).

Treat any of the other "rubber pellet" items ( ie. stingball)like you would the rubber baton. Be especially wary of facial, throat, airway compromise.As of yet, i have yet to hear of a cardiac/pulmonary contusion, cardiac tamponade, or PTX due to employment of these items (if you know of one please let me know !!!!)

Anyway, sorry for the long post, I just wanted to offer some info I had, hope this helps someone out.--:ph34r:
 
Wow... that is cool. Where can I buy one?

Seriously... the Taser is a great tool


I work security for a hospital part-time - I remember back in May, when I OC sprayed some "donkey" who decided to fight at the hospital fair... I chased him down... he stopped running and went to the ground when he ran into my partner and the local PD with a couple of other detainees on the ground... the local PD officer had his Taser out... I think that that may have ended my guy's ideas of running.

Tasers are a GREAT took for LE...yes... there is bad press... but I'm with DT4EMS and sandbox.... show me a case where the Taser was the actual cause of death... and not Excited Delirum and/or improper restriant.
 
Sandbox Medic, could you give me the mix/ratios for the baking soda H20 mix, At the college where I work at we do the standbys for the police academy for their "chemical days" (Tear gas and pepper spray) Thanks again for the info in advance! ^_^:)^_^
 
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