Sometimes when it is your time, it is really your time.

Aidey

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Called for a "full arrest"

Arrive on scene and find an adult male lying on the living room floor, alive, writhing around. The ALS fire crew is attempting to assess the patient. The pt is a late 60's male who had been outside for less than 5 minutes doing physical labor. He had a witnessed collapse and was reported to be unresponsive for 1-2 minutes, before waking up and being moved back into the house. The only thing the family can tell us is that he takes nitro, and he has been complaining of back pain today, which he attributed to a pulled muscle.

The 3 lead is showing sinus tach at 144, resps of 28, the NIBP is showing error, we can't hear anything and he has no radial pulse. The SpO2 is 86% on 12 lpm. The pt is pale/grey and diaphoretic. His distal cap refill is slow, and his hands are cold. He looks bad.

In order to obtain an IV and 12 lead the patient has to be manually restrained because he will not hold still and doesn't even appear to hear you asking him to follow directions. The only thing he will say is that his chest hurts and he needs to move.

12 lead showed the following. Sorry, it is a crappy copy of a crappy tracing, but it shows enough to get the point.

IMAG0086Edited.jpg



Typical inferior MI right? So we gave the pt ASA and took off for the closest hospital with a cath lab. After 8 or so tries we are still unable to get a BP, so no nitro. We gave 50mcg of Fentanyl for pain. After 5 minutes the patient was drastically less physically agitated, and became very lethargic. No change in vitals.

At the hospital the ER doc spent about 2 minutes with him and then confirmed the cath lab activation. They got a pulse in the 130s, with a BP of 55/47. They gave him heparin, plavix, fluids, dopamine etc and whisked him off to the cath lab.

On the way there they decided to stop at CT and grab a quick scan. Which was probably a good thing, since it showed the dissecting AAA the pt ALSO had going on.

The last thing I heard he had been shipped to the bigger hospital, and was in surgery with a pulse. When he arrived at that hospital he had fluids and blood running and a BP of 60/crap. I'm hoping to find out tonight if he lived through the sugery.
 
Wow.
 
It's your time...

The truth is, this was YOUR time.

It was your time to face something like this, otherwise, you wouldn't have brought it up.

What are you going to do with it; what have you done with it? Those are the the important questions. What did YOU learn?

You did your job. Now, as you described, it's a juggling game where the patient first has to overcome the trauma of his disease entity and now, must overcome the trauma of the interventions.
 
Aidey,

I've got to admit, the first place my mind went when you described the case was disection, due to the back pain, tachycardia, syncope and appearance you described.

MOST (not all)inferior MIs present with either normal heart rate or bradycardia. Another clue is the nearly global ischemia on 12 lead, when it's difficult to localize an MI to an artery start being suspicious for a cause of ischemia outside the myocardium. Finally, if high concentration O2 is not improving hypoxemia, start looking for a V/Q mismatch, in this case a deadspace due to probable poor lung perfusion.
 
Aidey,

I've got to admit, the first place my mind went when you described the case was disection, due to the back pain, tachycardia, syncope and appearance you described.

MOST (not all)inferior MIs present with either normal heart rate or bradycardia. Another clue is the nearly global ischemia on 12 lead, when it's difficult to localize an MI to an artery start being suspicious for a cause of ischemia outside the myocardium. Finally, if high concentration O2 is not improving hypoxemia, start looking for a V/Q mismatch, in this case a deadspace due to probable poor lung perfusion.

I hear you on this, but there's a chicken/egg part of the presentation that you have to wonder about. He could in theory have been having that global ischemia, poor coronary perfusion, and poor CO that just wasn't going to recover with prehospital intervention.

You don't usually see people agitated and writhing and having such a crappy general presentation from an MI only, so I probably would've been looking for a comorbidity, but this guy was handled well.

Curious: Where was the AAA, just wondering?
 
He was complaining of back pain earlier in the day, but on scene he was complaining of chest pain. The entire time he pretty much repeated "my chest hurts" or some variation of that. He was also a skinny guy, and we cut his shirt off - no obvious distention or discoloration.

I don't know where the AAA was, I'm hoping to find out tonight.

He also developed what appeared to be a 2nd degree type II block in the ED, I will put up that EKG tomorrow. As far as his presentation goes, I've seen MI patients nearly that anxious, so I attributed it to the MI.
 
Brown LOL'd at ALS fire crew attempting to assess the patient, as if they would know how to do that! :D

Brown would also not wait round for Intensive Care/ALS, Brown would take this person to the hospital with much of the fastness.
 
Brown LOL'd at ALS fire crew attempting to assess the patient, as if they would know how to do that! :D

Brown would also not wait round for Intensive Care/ALS, Brown would take this person to the hospital with much of the fastness.

HEY! There are good medics in fire, too! :angry:

I love interesting calls like that! I was kind of leaning towards AAA while initially reading it, also. But from the sounds of it, you had a pretty busy scene, so I can see how it may have been overlooked. I'm curious, though... They started the Dopamine because of they hypotension/cardiogenic shock... After discovering the AAA, did they DC the drip as to avoid putting more pressure on the dissection (even though he was already severely hypotensive), or did they leave it running?
 
I couldn't find out much. He did get transferred to the ECU this morning, it sounded like he made it out of surgery, but I'm not sure. They may have ended the surgery early knowing they couldn't do anything.

They hung 4 units of blood at the first hospital, and were playing with the dopamine the whole time. I guess they would get his pressure up a tad and then it would plummet right back down. His pluse was all over too.
 
Truth be told, I hear back pain, no radials, passing out when not supine, and grossly diaphoretic, my first thought was AAA too. out of curisoity, was he a smoker too?

I have a question though: since the NIBP kept saying error, did you try to get a manual in the field?

good job on getting him to the hospital alive, I've had two of AAA calls in my career: 1 in the field made it to the ER and died on the OR table, and the other was a CCT from local ER to my hospital that burst half way through the transport.
 
We did, we couldn't auscultate or palpate anything.


I think I need to explain the back pain thing a bit better. He was not complaining of back pain. He had made one comment several hours earlier to his wife that he thought he pulled a muscle. It wasn't bothering him enough to prevent him from shoveling snow, which is what he was doing when he collapsed. When we got on scene he was clutching his chest saying "my chest hurts, my chest hurts". That was one of two things he would say, the other being "I need to move". The pt himself never said his back hurt, he only complained of chest pain. I emphasize this because the back pain was more of a tertiary complaint compared to everything else.
 
We did, we couldn't auscultate or palpate anything.


I think I need to explain the back pain thing a bit better. He was not complaining of back pain. He had made one comment several hours earlier to his wife that he thought he pulled a muscle. It wasn't bothering him enough to prevent him from shoveling snow, which is what he was doing when he collapsed. When we got on scene he was clutching his chest saying "my chest hurts, my chest hurts". That was one of two things he would say, the other being "I need to move". The pt himself never said his back hurt, he only complained of chest pain. I emphasize this because the back pain was more of a tertiary complaint compared to everything else.

It is often the little focused on, or subtle off hand single comments that give you a piece of information that changes the whole dynamic. Always be on the lookout for them.
 
Other small little clues. Heart rates in the 130s and 140s tend to scream hypovolemia/preload issues. There is rate-caused diastolic failure, however you would expect to see a somewhat faster rate, along signs of heart failure(tell the medic your working with that the patient with no blood pressure needs CCBs or beta blockers....watch them believe you've lost you mind). The difficult part is short of putting in central lines and shooting numbers (and if anyone is doing THAT in the field...I'm seriously impressed, and a little frightened)it's hard to really KNOW, it's just an educated guess based on physical signs and symptoms that your treating with medications that may harm the other conditions.

You also don't expect an AMI to be this bad, this quick. Ususally this is the guy who started having "heart burn" 4 days ago and now can't figure out why he can't get out of bed. He's infarcted darn near his whole heart, has a 3rd degree block in the 30s, an EF of around 5% and a CI of <1. In short, without a quicke transplant, they're probably gonna die.

Sounds like ya'll did a good job, and it's a miracle he's still alive. Kudos for the pain management as well, I've found if you appropritely manage pain it knocks out about 75% of the agitation you encounter. I probably use Fentanyl more than any other drug in my inventory.
 
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So hang on, was this pt having a STEMI as well as a ruptured AAA or was the ruptured AAA causing ischaemic ECG changes?
 
Brown LOL'd at ALS fire crew attempting to assess the patient, as if they would know how to do that! :D

Brown would also not wait round for Intensive Care/ALS, Brown would take this person to the hospital with much of the fastness.

Allow me to put this in your language.

Piss off, wanker.

Sounds like a well run, FUBARed call.
 
"He who knows most, knows how little he really knows"

Is this a Thomas Jefferson quote instead of Socrates?
Just curious.....
"He who knows most, knows how little he really knows"
 
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