SoCal 911 contracts

[iExposeDeformities]

This may sound like a stupid question, but is it possible for IFT companies with no 911 history to suddenly/eventually obtain 911 contracts in SoCal? I’m talking about companies like Liberty or PRN.

 

[Jim37F]

Possibly? But highly, as in extremely, unlikely.

LA Co JUST did their 10 year contracts (like a year ago). Orange Co wasn't too much longer ago either...in both cases, established 911 companies LOST contracts to even bigger 911 companies.

If you look at So Cal as a whole (from the Mexican border to Kern Co (which I'm counting Kern as Central, not Southern CA)).... there's really only 3 private companies that pop up at that scale: ARM, Care, and McCormick. And there's not many more companies with small isolated 911 pockets (off the top of my head, Gold Cross in Imperial Co, Mercy in rural San Diego Co areas, Emergency Ambulance Service in a few Orange Co cities, I think Doctors Ambulance still has a city or 2 in OC?, Schaefer only has 1 small city in LA, and last I heard AmeriCare still has a few tiny isolated pockets scattered throughout the region?).

So not impossible for someone like Liberty or PRN to snatch up a contract....its not gonna happen for many a year at the earliest as the trend has been consolidation under the larger more established companies with connections...or just moving to Fire taking over.

 

[iExposeDeformities]

Possibly? But highly, as in extremely, unlikely.

LA Co JUST did their 10 year contracts (like a year ago). Orange Co wasn't too much longer ago either...in both cases, established 911 companies LOST contracts to even bigger 911 companies.

If you look at So Cal as a whole (from the Mexican border to Kern Co (which I'm counting Kern as Central, not Southern CA)).... there's really only 3 private companies that pop up at that scale: ARM, Care, and McCormick. And there's not many more companies with small isolated 911 pockets (off the top of my head, Gold Cross in Imperial Co, Mercy in rural San Diego Co areas, Emergency Ambulance Service in a few Orange Co cities, I think Doctors Ambulance still has a city or 2 in OC?, Schaefer only has 1 small city in LA, and last I heard AmeriCare still has a few tiny isolated pockets scattered throughout the region?).

So not impossible for someone like Liberty or PRN to snatch up a contract....its not gonna happen for many a year at the earliest as the trend has been consolidation under the larger more established companies with connections...or just moving to Fire taking over.

Does AmeriCare have some small ones in/around Santa Monica? I’ve seen their rigs go code 3 around UCLA Santa Monica hospital

 

[VentMonkey]

Yes, but IIRC they have to have a certain number of years established as an ambulance provider before they’re eligible to bid on an upcoming 911 contract. At this point it becomes completely up to them if they want to bid, and even more so if the fire departments who’s EOA’s are up for bid want to approve their proposal. Welcome to SoCal privatized EMS at its unequivocal finest.

It’s not called competitive bidding for no reason. I bet @gonefishing, or @Qulevrius can elaborate on LA County 911 EOA’s bidding processes.

And yeah, like Jim said, the companies you’ve listed are ineligible for at least another decade for the most part. Crazier things have happened, but typically the companies who proactively bid do so with no intentions on breach of contract and the like.

 

[Qulevrius]

It’s more of a political bidding, rather than commercially competitive. I can’t offer any details on the particulars, but it has a lot to do with lobbying (and everything else that comes with it). The response averages are just numbers that must look good on the proposals, and as long as the FDs outsource the ETs, they don’t really care who’s pushing gurneys for them.

 

[Jim37F]

Does AmeriCare have some small ones in/around Santa Monica? I’ve seen their rigs go code 3 around UCLA Santa Monica hospital

AmeriCare just lost the Santa Monica contract earlier last year...McCormick will be taking over transports for SMFD. Not quite sure when exactly the transition date is, but up until then you'll see AC units on calls....for a few more weeks at most.

 

[VentMonkey]

If you look at So Cal as a whole (from the Mexican border to Kern Co (which I'm counting Kern as Central, not Southern CA)...

Kern County is more or less the *******ized offspring of both the Central Valley, and SoCal; neither ever seem to want to lay claim to such glorious landscape.

 

[gonefishing]

This may sound like a stupid question, but is it possible for IFT companies with no 911 history to suddenly/eventually obtain 911 contracts in SoCal? I’m talking about companies like Liberty or PRN.

No. Their are several road blocks in place. That's why AMR aka Goodhew, Professional ambulance, Bowers, Mccormick, Schaefer all had such a lomg hold. They we're / are the grandfathers of LAco ems. CARE was a small time IFT company going back to 1969 with a little 911 coverage experience. Enter in Falk who purchased them and went full 911. Companys like crypton ambulance, Adams, Brown, Wilson etc all either sold out to AMR when they we're LAIDLAW or died off due to AMR. It's a dog eat dog world in LA. Places like Bowers, LA's once first and oldest private ambulance service lost most of their ground to fire departments going into EMS. Mr.Bowers was approached by AMR for purchase in the early 90's the man held his ground, held onto Long Beach City until FD took over in 98' he than retired selling the company in 1999/2000 eventually turning into a IFT company backing up LBFD and the south bay. Having such experience in 911 which I beleive in LAco to do 911 you have to have a minimum of 12 years as a 911 service in order to do 911. The only way an ift company in LAco could go this route is backing up a 911 provider or servicing a small city such as Downey. Everyone does back up for Downey which is an old running joke amongst most gurney jockeys in LAco. So no, places like Ambulanz for example the only way they could do 911 is by buying Americare which they did, that time served as a 911 entity than becomes Ambulanz time served as a 911 provider. So not not every ift company can overnight become a 911 provider. Theirs also a ton of paperwork and processing in addition.

 

[Jim37F]

Kern County is more or less the *******ized offspring of both the Central Valley, and SoCal; neither ever seem to want to lay claim to such glorious landscape.

lol...I dunno if you guys want to be considered So Cal for this discussion? After all your fire guys are largely BLS only, don't try to take scene control away from your medics? And don't your medics protocols actually look more like a set of ALS protocols vs the LA medics which feels more like an AEMT's? Lol

 

[VentMonkey]

lol...I dunno if you guys want to be considered So Cal for this discussion? After all your fire guys are largely BLS only, don't try to take scene control away from your medics? And don't your medics protocols actually look more like a set of ALS protocols vs the LA medics which feels more like an AEMT's? Lol

I just call it KernCal: The Vortex. A lot of these firefighters are still paramedics, just not active. So, as far as scene control goes there’s a handful of factors that play into it. The biggest being the confidence, or lack there of, of our newer paramedics.*

Our county’s paramedic protocols are truly nothing special, and are a standardized set of California paramedic protocols. They’ve gotten better, but I’d venture to guess that even Dr. Vizzizi over in the Inland Empire has a better grip on overall recurring prehospital trends.

To be fair though, our new county medical director has only been in his seat long enough to slowly effect change, and he too is pretty pro-paramedic. Him and I even had a good discussion about airway management, and my spirits lifted a smidge when he told me he in fact listens to Weingart’s podcasts, and has had some dialogue between them.

All in all, I think it’s fair to say that it’s LA and Orange County’s protocols who are truly (specifically) special. And yes, they’re all essentially functioning at the AEMT-level, and have been for decades.

*Note, I said confidence, not cockiness. That fairs about as well as not having any confidence at all, oftentimes it makes things worse. Though I suppose these two are often intertwined.

 

[CALEMT]

Kern County is more or less the *******ized offspring of both the Central Valley, and SoCal; neither ever seem to want to lay claim to such glorious landscape.

It’s not you, it’s Oildale.

 

[RocketMedic]

In Texas, Houston has a myriad of "ESDs", generally organizing and supporting a service of some sort. There's a lot of them in Houston and this allows us to define unincorporated areas well. The city is all HFD

 

[jgmedic]

No. Their are several road blocks in place. That's why AMR aka Goodhew, Professional ambulance, Bowers, Mccormick, Schaefer all had such a lomg hold. They we're / are the grandfathers of LAco ems. CARE was a small time IFT company going back to 1969 with a little 911 coverage experience. Enter in Falk who purchased them and went full 911. Companys like crypton ambulance, Adams, Brown, Wilson etc all either sold out to AMR when they we're LAIDLAW or died off due to AMR. It's a dog eat dog world in LA. Places like Bowers, LA's once first and oldest private ambulance service lost most of their ground to fire departments going into EMS. Mr.Bowers was approached by AMR for purchase in the early 90's the man held his ground, held onto Long Beach City until FD took over in 98' he than retired selling the company in 1999/2000 eventually turning into a IFT company backing up LBFD and the south bay. Having such experience in 911 which I beleive in LAco to do 911 you have to have a minimum of 12 years as a 911 service in order to do 911. The only way an ift company in LAco could go this route is backing up a 911 provider or servicing a small city such as Downey. Everyone does back up for Downey which is an old running joke amongst most gurney jockeys in LAco. So no, places like Ambulanz for example the only way they could do 911 is by buying Americare which they did, that time served as a 911 entity than becomes Ambulanz time served as a 911 provider. So not not every ift company can overnight become a 911 provider. Theirs also a ton of paperwork and processing in addition.

Dude, Care had 911 long before they were bought by Falck. When I was there from 06-08 is when they moved into LACo. Prior to that it was all North OC.

 

[gonefishing]

Dude, Care had 911 long before they were bought by Falck. When I was there from 06-08 is when they moved into LACo. Prior to that it was all North OC.

Yes and I did state that. 1969 when it was still family owned, they had a small portion but mainly IFT. The areas they run now once we're Medix etc

 

[jgmedic]

Yes and I did state that. 1969 when it was still family owned, they had a small portion but mainly IFT. The areas they run now once we're Medix etc

My point was you make it seem like most of their 911 came after Falck. Prior, they had Anaheim, Garden Grove, Fountain Valley, Stanton, Buena Park, La Palma, Fullerton, and huge swaths of LACo's Zones 1, 2, and 3. Not exactly "a small portion". They were also a lot better to work for before Falck took over.

 

[gonefishing]

My point was you make it seem like most of their 911 came after Falck. Prior, they had Anaheim, Garden Grove, Fountain Valley, Stanton, Buena Park, La Palma, Fullerton, and huge swaths of LACo's Zones 1, 2, and 3. Not exactly "a small portion". They were also a lot better to work for before Falck took over.

Never intended to lol and I hope your not getting offensive over it. Most of my career was LA Co. When care came in, alot of us had no clue who they were. Just like the short lived Verihealth. I do remember all the politics and talks of padding pockets by care for those zones though. Theirs even a great JEMs article on it.

 

[jgmedic]

Never intended to lol and I hope your not getting offensive over it. Most of my career was LA Co. When care came in, alot of us had no clue who they were. Just like the short lived Verihealth. I do remember all the politics and talks of padding pockets by care for those zones though. Theirs even a great JEMs article on it.

Im not offended at all. Im just really bored at the station today. Sorry lol. The reason Care gets all that ****, is that the owners and managers kissed FD *** big time, and would do anything to keep those contracts. Word gets around, they won't rock the boat, here's more contracts. Rumor has it Costa Mesa approached them about private medics, and OCFA came over and basically told them if they did it, goodbye any OCFA area, and so they withdrew. All hearsay, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it were true.

 

[gonefishing]

Im not offended at all. Im just really bored at the station today. Sorry lol. The reason Care gets all that ****, is that the owners and managers kissed FD *** big time, and would do anything to keep those contracts. Word gets around, they won't rock the boat, here's more contracts.

Yes just like the Lynch incident. In fact Care called private medics a lower level of care.

 

[jgmedic]

Yes just like the Lynch incident. In fact Care called private medics a lower level of care.

Idiots. I am a FF-medic and that is the biggest pile of BS ever.

 

[Qulevrius]

Yes just like the Lynch incident. In fact Care called private medics a lower level of care.

Because fire medics are good at what they’re doing, right ? CARE keeps their medics on ALS transfers only, and any time they’re pulled in for fire coverage, FD won’t let them do anything. Same applies to CCT units on fire calls, County Fire uses nurses for BLS interventions. Can’t get more ridiculous than that.