So what will Las Vegas do?

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Fish

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Study that Las Vegas had a third party conduct on the Fire Dept. suggest either the Fire Department gets out of EMS transports completely to save Money, or take it over completely to make money.


Here is the video story

http://www.emsworld.com/video/10839117/las-vegas-fire-department-efficiency-study

Thoughts?

They'd be wise to get out of it completely, reimbursements will only go down in the future. So that revenue figure quoted will also go down.
 
Fish said:
Study that Las Vegas had a third party conduct on the Fire Dept. suggest either the Fire Department gets out of EMS transports completely to save Money, or take it over completely to make money.


Here is the video story

http://www.emsworld.com/video/10839117/las-vegas-fire-department-efficiency-study

Thoughts?

They'd be wise to get out of it completely, reimbursements will only go down in the future. So that revenue figure quoted will also go down.
Click to expand...

An Arizona IAFF Local pushed away ICMA a few years ago. I think it was Phoenix.
 
46Young said:
An Arizona IAFF Local pushed away ICMA a few years ago. I think it was Phoenix.
Click to expand...

They scared that the document that ICMA produced would suggest limiting the size of their Dept or dropping EMS?
 
It is insane the amount of money (millions) LVFR has wasted since 1999 with this STUPID set up. 21 rescues, ALS engines, AND private ambulances for transport. Completely ridiculous.

I imagine that they will take on transport, though. FDs love to spend money on stupid programs (e.g every ALS engine in existence).
 
Fish said:
They scared that the document that ICMA produced would suggest limiting the size of their Dept or dropping EMS?
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Probably not. The Union Pres. said that this was suggested twice before andnothing happened. I would bet on LV Fire taking over EMS 100% rather than give up the positions. The IAFF is good at villianizing the EMS privates.
 
Can't link from this phone, but the Local was Lake Havasu. A site called labortribune.com had statements from FD's in various cities that claimed that ICMA typically advises Combining services, and that their studies are politically influenced.
 
46Young said:
Can't link from this phone, but the Local was Lake Havasu. A site called labortribune.com had statements from FD's in various cities that claimed that ICMA typically advises Combining services, and that their studies are politically influenced.
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Combing Fire and EMS?
 
Now that I'm home from work and can link posts, here's the article:

http://labortribune.com/city-hired-...ma-recommendations-challenged-across-america/

From Lake Havasu:

"Lake Havasau, AZ – An ICMA study that suggested cuts in fire fighter staffing and a change in personnel shift hours was rejected by community leaders because of “flawed” and “error-filled” data. It turned out that the data in the report were not even from the city."
 
Even if ICMA is politically motivated, it doesn't take a genius to see that having both private and FD ambulances and paramedics responding to calls at the same time is not the most efficient use of resources.

If I were a betting man, I'd say it's likely the FD would take over...the union would probably be resistant to laying off the staff for the cities fire department ambulances.

As to which would be better, I have no idea what level of care any of the services in Vegas provide.
 
EQUOTE=rescue1;447168]Even if ICMA is politically motivated, it doesn't take a genius to see that having both private and FD ambulances and paramedics responding to calls at the same time is not the most efficient use of resources.

If I were a betting man, I'd say it's likely the FD would take over...the union would probably be resistant to laying off the staff for the cities fire department ambulances.

As to which would be better, I have no idea what level of care any of the services in Vegas provide.[/QUOTE]

True. FD's have taken over EMS to save/increase staffing, and also to increase their revenue. This would be no different, even though they are being forced to, rather than doing it of their own initiative. Basically, the private EMS txp providers for LV can thank ICMA for taking away their jobs if the city officials drink the Kool-Aid.

But honestly, I think having FD taking over EMS txp would probably cost about the same as whet they're doing right now. The privates cost less, but any cost savings by eliminating duplication of services will be cancelled out by the FF/EMT and medics' more costly pay and benefits. I feel that going 100% private for EMS txp would be the cheaper option, but then the arguments about private EMS being profit driven, employees having less stringent hiring standards, employees doing a poorer job due to inadequate pay, benefits, short tenures, young age, using EMS as a transient position, etc. will be used. Add every example of privates understaffing/under-deploying including the ineffective SSM, using 911 units to do IFT, substandard apparatus and equipment, and the private option will be dismissed.
 
46Young said:
I feel that going 100% private for EMS txp would be the cheaper option, but then the arguments about private EMS being profit driven, employees having less stringent hiring standards, employees doing a poorer job due to inadequate pay, benefits, short tenures, young age, using EMS as a transient position, etc. will be used. Add every example of privates understaffing/under-deploying including the ineffective SSM, using 911 units to do IFT, substandard apparatus and equipment, and the private option will be dismissed.
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How good are the privates in LV? I'm not disagreeing with your points, but there are good privates and bad privates.

...This also could be a post about porn.
 
LVFD would most likely go on a hiring freeze, if Ambulances were discontinued. They would have more than enough staff for a number of years and allow for attrition to take the place of lay offs.

This is just a guess
 
rescue1 said:
How good are the privates in LV? I'm not disagreeing with your points, but there are good privates and bad privates.

...This also could be a post about porn.
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lol

But seriously, the private EMS company could be stellar, but when the IAFF is finished with their smear campaign, that company will look like the Devil to the politicians. Every negative aspect of private EMS will be projected onto that company, true or not.

Third Service EMS would be much harder to argue against than private EMS. But curiously, ICMA did not recommend single role municipal EMS as a cost saving measure vs fire based dual role EMS txp. Perhaps someone is in bed with the IAFF, or perhaps someone has a financial interest in seeing the private EMS provider take over 100% of EMS txp. Just a possibility.
 
46Young said:
lol

But seriously, the private EMS company could be stellar, but when the IAFF is finished with their smear campaign, that company will look like the Devil to the politicians. Every negative aspect of private EMS will be projected onto that company, true or not.

Third Service EMS would be much harder to argue against than private EMS. But curiously, ICMA did not recommend single role municipal EMS as a cost saving measure vs fire based dual role EMS txp. Perhaps someone is in bed with the IAFF, or perhaps someone has a financial interest in seeing the private EMS provider take over 100% of EMS txp. Just a possibility.
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I wonder what it would be like to be in bed with the IAFF, smells of Chili and has a large mustache
 
46Young said:
lol

Third Service EMS would be much harder to argue against than private EMS. But curiously, ICMA did not recommend single role municipal EMS as a cost saving measure vs fire based dual role EMS txp. Perhaps someone is in bed with the IAFF, or perhaps someone has a financial interest in seeing the private EMS provider take over 100% of EMS txp. Just a possibility.
Click to expand...


Third service may be the most expensive, though. Contracting staff or adding staff to an existing organization is usually cheaper then creating a new organization. So a cost cutting study probably wouldn't recommend it.
 
rescue1 said:
How good are the privates in LV? I'm not disagreeing with your points, but there are good privates and bad privates.

...This also could be a post about porn.
Click to expand...

Not bad. I know a lot of people that used to work down there. AMR and MedicWest which is owned by the company that owns AMR. EMSC I think?

It's a weird system. LVFD gives a bonus to the transporting fire medic if they take a transport instead of giving it to AMR or MW from what I've heard. If I was down there I'd transport everyone lol.
 
NVRob said:
Not bad. I know a lot of people that used to work down there. AMR and MedicWest which is owned by the company that owns AMR. EMSC I think?

It's a weird system. LVFD gives a bonus to the transporting fire medic if they take a transport instead of giving it to AMR or MW from what I've heard. If I was down there I'd transport everyone lol.
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At least it's not a bonus for not transporting them.
 
I hate media reporting when it comes to these sorts of things. Anyone have a link to the original study??

Any private company who wins will lowball in then jack thing$ up, including fees for service to users AND to LV, claiming they can't make enough money.

I bet the profitable scenario the consultant made was also doing IFT's for fee using city rigs.


Maybe a cab company ought to just dedicate a few cars with easily washed back seats to pick up the slack when citizens can;'t afford medical transport and start calling a cab 'cause it becomes cheaper?
 
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MedicWest and AMR are both pretty decent places as far as privates go- think your average high-performance AMR SSM operation. They're not bad.

LVFD, on the other hand, is "meh" to the nth degree. They're also very, very expensive.
 
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