Should EMS be armed

[curt]

Nothing wrong with a little bit of pain punishment. It's a simple concept- you touch the stove, you get burned, you don't touch the stove again. The problem is that some nutcase parents out there just don't know when to put the brakes on it. They're obviously the minority, but in order to effectively address the issue, some feel that we need to target everyone- especially since these abusive spastics don't exactly walk around making it known to everyone and their headshrinker what it is they're doing. It's too bad some people just have no self-control.

 

[AlaskaEMT]

With the proper training, yes, of course.

It takes 12 weeks to become a police officer. No disrespect to LEO's, but 12 weeks translates into EMT-B for us. I'm tired of hearing about EMS providers getting stabbed and shot.

 

[BLSBoy]

It takes 12 weeks to become a police officer. No disrespect to LEO's, but 12 weeks translates into EMT-B for us. I'm tired of hearing about EMS providers getting stabbed and shot.

HUH!?
12 weeks.
40 hrs/week.
480 hrs.

EMT=120 hrs (roughly)

FAIL.

I am more concerned about idiot EMT drivers, fat pieces of lard, non EMTs on ambulances, back injuries, the weight of the Stryker Power Cot, and the upcoming 2009 MLB season then I am about getting shot or stabbed.

Why? I have a better chance of getting injured/killed by those events then I am by someone shooting or stabbing me.

Do some research, and tell me what the greatest threat (at least statistically) for EMS responders is.

Shooting/stabbings are oversensationalized.

 

[VentMedic]

HUH!?
Why? I have a better chance of getting injured/killed by those events then I am by someone shooting or stabbing me.

Do some research, and tell me what the greatest threat (at least statistically) for EMS responders is.

Here are two interesting studies with statististis:

Firefighters

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/osfff.pdf

In 2007, a total of 102 on-duty firefighter deaths occurred in the U.S. This is a sharp increase over
the 89 firefighter fatalities that occurred in 2006, but returns to the long-term trend of close to 100
on-duty deaths annually. The largest share of deaths (36 deaths) occurred on the fire ground. Stress,
exertion, and other medical-related issues, which usually result in heart attacks or other sudden
cardiac events, continued to be the leading cause of fatal injury. Of the 40 stress-related fatalities in
2007, 38 were classified as sudden cardiac deaths.​

http://www.objectivesafety.net/2007APHAEMSHO.pdf​

EMS Occupational Statistics​

74% of the deaths are transportation related. 1/5 of ground transport fatalities were struck by moving vehicles.​

11% were cardiovascular.​

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Transport and ergonomics safety hazards are the biggest[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]issues in EMS injury and fatality[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Both are devoid of acceptable safety standards, and[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]minimally addressed by any meaningful let alone validated training[/FONT][/FONT]​

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Bold]We need to get the core responsibilites required for EMS right before taking on additional duties. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Bold]Carrying a gun is not a good substitute for your inability to move out of harm's way or to think before you act in any situation. The gun will not make up for poor training, alertness/awareness or being too out of shape to move for even the simplest tasks required of the job. . [/FONT]​

 

[reaper]

HUH!?
12 weeks.
40 hrs/week.
480 hrs.

EMT=120 hrs (roughly)

FAIL.

I am more concerned about idiot EMT drivers, fat pieces of lard, non EMTs on ambulances, back injuries, the weight of the Stryker Power Cot, and the upcoming 2009 MLB season then I am about getting shot or stabbed.

Why? I have a better chance of getting injured/killed by those events then I am by someone shooting or stabbing me.

Do some research, and tell me what the greatest threat (at least statistically) for EMS responders is.

Shooting/stabbings are oversensationalized.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[BLSBoy]

What does that have to do with anything?

Since I was listing what affected me, that affects me. It is much heavier then the regular version.

 

[CAOX3]

With the proper training, yes, of course.

It takes 12 weeks to become a police officer. No disrespect to LEO's, but 12 weeks translates into EMT-B for us. I'm tired of hearing about EMS providers getting stabbed and shot.

12 weeks, and a bachelors degree usually.

 

[AJ Hidell]

12 weeks, and a bachelors degree usually.

LOL! In a parallel universe, maybe.

In 2003, one-third of all officers worked for police departments that required at least some college course work for new officers. Eighteen percent of all police departments required new officers to have taken some college classes, with nine percent requiring two years of college and one percent requiring a four-year degree." Local law enforcement agencies were three times as likely to have a college requirement in 2003 as in 1990.

 

[daedalus]

12 weeks, and a bachelors degree usually.

LAPD requires a pulse, a GED, and the ability to speak english.

FYI, medical ethics prohibits providers from doing harm. The police have their job to do. We have our own. It is not in our job description to use force. EMS should not ever be armed with anything more than two ams connected to a critically thinking and educated brain.

 

[ErinCooley]

I'm a fan of gun rights, and guns in general (I have my own pistol and permit, and my husband is a collector. We probably have close to 50 in our home)

However, I don't trust myself or my partners well enough for a gun to be on an ambulance with me. Its too easy to be overpowered by your own weapon in such a small space and personally I dont want to be driving an ambulance when my partner loses his gun, and we both get shot with it.

 

[U2623]

So I lost my old account and had to create a new one...

Anyways, used to be username Mongoose. Working on a 911 BLS rig in LA I was unfortunate enough to be in two active shooter situations within my first four months of work. I worked 1900-0700, and the second time was shot at directly (overdose, guy was afraid of getting caught, panicked, and ended up punching his own ticket gsw to the head), and spent several minutes kissing the pavement with the signature "krack!" sounds of three bullets breaking the sound barrier above my head, my partner's head, and the Co FD medic's head.

Did I wish I was armed so I could shoot back?? Absolutely not. Right then I had secure cover AND concealment w/exfil if needed. My biggest concern was other people getting hit and having a possible MCI on my hands. EMT's get awarded a lot of responsibility with the limited amount of hours they are trained in. We don't need conflicting responsibility! Someone put it well earlier in this post, we are prevented from causing harm. Our liability is high enough, the last thing we need is for some ricky-rescuer to morph into ricky-Rambo and peg a bystander or three in the process.

Also, do you really want to wrestle with some psych that is trying to get your gun? What if it goes off and hits an O2 tank? Or your driver? Get a metal clipboard, take some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, MCMAP, or Krav Maga if you feel you must, and just focus on your first priority being removing your person from the threat as fast as possible.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Anyways, used to be username Mongoose. Working on a 911 BLS rig in LA I was unfortunate enough to be in two active shooter situations within my first four months of work.

Louisiana is a dangerous place.

 

[Micro_87]

I believe that we should be armed...but not on our person possibly maybe having a small cal. maybe a 9mm in a lock box in the rig, idk this is a hard topic...

 

[VentMedic]

I believe that we should be armed...but not on our person possibly maybe having a small cal. maybe a 9mm in a lock box in the rig, idk this is a hard topic...

If you have time to get your gun out of a locked box, you have time to get yourself to safety. If you are getting your gun out of a locked box, you are looking to engage a person in a confrontation. That will also change the way the prosecution and the jury will perceive a situation when you do use your weapon.

 

[Webster]

Unless you're a tactical medic or in the armed forces, weapons and EMS don't mix. Period.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Unless you're a tactical medic or in the armed forces, weapons and EMS don't mix. Period.

You want to tell us about your vast experienced with armed EMS that supports your contention?

 

[fortsmithman]

I believe that we should be armed...but not on our person possibly maybe having a small cal. maybe a 9mm in a lock box in the rig, idk this is a hard topic...

A 9MM is not a small calibre a small calibre would be .22 .25 or a .32 . The time spent unlocking the pistol would be better spent putting your foot on the gas and leaving the scene with your partner.

 

[U2623]

Anyways, used to be username Mongoose. Working on a 911 BLS rig in LA I was unfortunate enough to be in two active shooter situations within my first four months of work.

For clarification, Los Angeles, Antelope Valley area to be more specific. Night shift.

 

[Summit]

I never go out without at least a couple of ATGMs and possibly a tactical nuke.

 

[Webster]

You want to tell us about your vast experienced with armed EMS that supports your contention?

I have none, and didn't pretend to have any. That's just my opinion.