DT4EMS
Kip Teitsort, Founder
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I have been working on this since 1996. I have taught hundreds of EMS providers and I am now trying to take it national. You can see video clips and portions of the manual at www.dt4ems.net
Self-Defense for EMS providers
- Thread starter DT4EMS
- Start date
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I asked in another post ... can you explain why I should go take this course/
TTLWHKR
Forum Deputy Chief
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They have a course called "Street Survival for EMS", at least they do in PA. It is a 16 hour Con-Ed Class, I took it at the Bucks County Fire School about 8 years ago. Teaches self defense, and a good instructor will tell people the less obvious. How to use what you've got to defend yourself. If it's the answer between life and death, use your equipment! Throw your bag at them and run, hit them w/ your cylinder and run... Really whack them w/ something, and tend to your partner, etc. Then you can say that they fell and hit their head while trying to attack you. 
We're the neutral on the streets, but too often we're an easy target. Either we're first on scene of a violent crime, some junkie needs a fix, or they want a fast get-away car that will really get them to their destination fast.
We're the neutral on the streets, but too often we're an easy target. Either we're first on scene of a violent crime, some junkie needs a fix, or they want a fast get-away car that will really get them to their destination fast.
OP
OP
DT4EMS
Kip Teitsort, Founder
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Well,
Where to start....
There have been EMS providers that have lost their jobs and their freedom because they responded inappropriately in a self-defense situation.
I guess you guys didn't get the intel about terrorists wanting to steal (carjack) ambulances to use in the states. Anyway that was about a year ago.
I always like to say that a course like this isn't important to you UNTIL it IS important to you.
All you have to do is do a search on EMT assaulted/attacked and you will be amazed at the numbers. I was, once I started actually doing the research for "statistics".
http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/b...-assaults.shtml
Check out the above link for some recent ones.
Self-Defense for EMS providers is a touchy subject. Administrators don't want to address it because they forgot what it was like to be on the street. Newspapers would eat it up if they could get a story of a medic hitting someone with an O2 Bottle.
The numbers are on the rise (EMS attacks). Thanks to drugs like Meth, people who would normally not try to hurt you are doing so.
What I did was took the "fluff" out and covered the basics. Including real world documentation (like officers get) for documenting the use of force. (You can see a portion of the manual on my website)
All of our training is about escape. It is for when "The scene is not as safe as you thought it was". It isn't about machismo or crap like that. I am a regular guy, not as fast as most and definatley not a strong as others. Therefore I had to find a "simple" way to use self-defense (or offense) when working as a police officer or paramedic.
I always treat people with respect and hope that I never have to use force, but the truth is statistcally I will have to at some time in my career. (I have had to a few times in EMS)
It is like training for a surgical cric. We don't do it everyday, but I have to show proficiency in it every year. I could argue that it 15 years of EMS I have never had to do it. So then should I give up practicing? The theory is the same for self-defense. You want to train IN CASE you have to use it, you do it right.
DT4EMS is not for the "Uncooperative patient". Most EMS providers are excellent at taking care of them. They already know how to "Survey the Scene" and recognize the warning signs. The problem arises when somethign happens outside of the "normal" daily activities.
I just encourage people to train. No matter the style. The more people train, the more they don't try and "Prove" how tough they are. I know you know the kind of "tough guys" I am talking about.
Where to start....
There have been EMS providers that have lost their jobs and their freedom because they responded inappropriately in a self-defense situation.
I guess you guys didn't get the intel about terrorists wanting to steal (carjack) ambulances to use in the states. Anyway that was about a year ago.
I always like to say that a course like this isn't important to you UNTIL it IS important to you.
All you have to do is do a search on EMT assaulted/attacked and you will be amazed at the numbers. I was, once I started actually doing the research for "statistics".
http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/b...-assaults.shtml
Check out the above link for some recent ones.
Self-Defense for EMS providers is a touchy subject. Administrators don't want to address it because they forgot what it was like to be on the street. Newspapers would eat it up if they could get a story of a medic hitting someone with an O2 Bottle.
The numbers are on the rise (EMS attacks). Thanks to drugs like Meth, people who would normally not try to hurt you are doing so.
What I did was took the "fluff" out and covered the basics. Including real world documentation (like officers get) for documenting the use of force. (You can see a portion of the manual on my website)
All of our training is about escape. It is for when "The scene is not as safe as you thought it was". It isn't about machismo or crap like that. I am a regular guy, not as fast as most and definatley not a strong as others. Therefore I had to find a "simple" way to use self-defense (or offense) when working as a police officer or paramedic.
I always treat people with respect and hope that I never have to use force, but the truth is statistcally I will have to at some time in my career. (I have had to a few times in EMS)
It is like training for a surgical cric. We don't do it everyday, but I have to show proficiency in it every year. I could argue that it 15 years of EMS I have never had to do it. So then should I give up practicing? The theory is the same for self-defense. You want to train IN CASE you have to use it, you do it right.
DT4EMS is not for the "Uncooperative patient". Most EMS providers are excellent at taking care of them. They already know how to "Survey the Scene" and recognize the warning signs. The problem arises when somethign happens outside of the "normal" daily activities.
I just encourage people to train. No matter the style. The more people train, the more they don't try and "Prove" how tough they are. I know you know the kind of "tough guys" I am talking about.
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Actually, it has become such a problem that NIOSH/CDC posted a study about it, although it may have directed more towards hospital staff.
rescuecpt
Community Leader Emeritus
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We did, and we were told to stay alert... and then one of our Chiefs tried to steal a rig to prove a point.
But we caught the b'tard. :lol:
OP
OP
DT4EMS
Kip Teitsort, Founder
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Ah Crap.....I can never get the quote thing to work......
rescuecpt, that is too funny!!
rescuecpt, that is too funny!!
rescuecpt
Community Leader Emeritus
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So you don't continue to get the doo-doo beaten out of you all the time, silly.
TTLWHKR
Forum Deputy Chief
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We did, and we were told to stay alert... and then one of our Chiefs tried to steal a rig to prove a point.
But we caught the b'tard. :lol: [/b][/quote]I always wished someone would steal my POS Chevy ambulance. No matter what we did, leave it running, leave the keys in it, leave the windows open with the keys hanging off the visor, etc... Nobody would steal it. :angry: Bast*rds!
OP
OP
DT4EMS
Kip Teitsort, Founder
- 1,225
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Unfortunately I didn't have the same luck. I had an ambulance car-jacked while loaded with a patient a few years ago.
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This is my story.
It was an early morning call like any other. It was still dark outside, it was around 5:30 when we were called out for an elderly woman having problems with her pacemaker. I was moonlighting on the ambulance because I had switched to full time law enforcement.
The patient was an elderly female in her late 70's and her daughter (mid-50's) was present. The patient requested transport to a hospital in Jefferson City.
En Route to the hospital, dispatch called and advised us of a report of an "unresponsive" male in a ditch. They asked if we could check on him. (Not uncommon for a rural service)
My partner (EMT) was driving and he asked if if we should stop. I told him that our patient was stable and he could "check" and at least provide some basic skills if needed.
Sure enough within a couple of minutes I felt the ambulance slow down. I looked up from the bench seat, out the win shield. I could see a black male, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans prone in the ditch.
My partner made a U-turn and placed us facing south on the Northbound shoulder. He exited and I apologized to the patient and her daughter (riding in the front passenger seat) for the inconvenience.
A short time later the back doors opened and my partner was standing there with the man from the ditch. I could smell a strong odor of an intoxicating beverage fill the back of the truck.
I looked at my partner and said "Let him have a seat on the bumper and call him a ride." (Trying to tell him to get law enforcement on the way)
The doors shut and I began to take a set of vitals. I heard the door chime, looked up in time to see a black arm putting the ambulance in drive. (My partner was a white male)
As we began moving forward, I jumped up and dove into the opening between the "box" and the cab. I was outstretched on my knees. I used my right hand to put the gear shift back into park. That made an awful noise and threw us all forward.
The man then punched me in the side of the face. I began to tell the woman to remove the keys from the ignition. She was frozen in fear and began to pray aloud. ( I wish I was kidding). \
Millions of things began to rush through my head...Where is my partner? Is he dead? Was he injured?
I tried to strike the man in the side of the neck. (Remember I am on my knees with one hand still holding the gear shift up as the engine races)
Right now the man has committed several crimes including kidnapping, Felony Assault, Driving while intoxicated and a car-jacking. Several of these would allow the use of deadly force in self-defense. ( This was the first time that I had left my gun at the station. Since then I never brought it back to the ambulance) I would have been justified in shooting him, but think of the "perception" if I would have.
What seemed like an eternity had passed, then the passenger door opened and there was my partner. He tried to get over the lady in the passenger seat SA she prayed. I yelled at him to come around and remove the keys. He did.
When the engine was off, I yelled "Jerk this mother -...... outa here!"
My partner grabbed him by his feet and pulled him out. I crawled out thought the driver's door and wanted to hurt him. All of a sudden, "Use of Force" guidelines came to mind and I backed off.
I remembered I had a patient so I went back into the back of the truck and called (rather upset) to dispatch begging for assistance.
The man tried to get up and attack my partner again. I tackled him and placed him in a cuffing position for over 20 minutes until law enforcement arrived.
Looking back it would have been better to have had my partner drive us away, but I didn't have that in my mind at the time.
Even with all of the training and experience I had as a police officer and a paramedic, I was still caught by surprise.
Now you know why I created DT4EMS. We all know how to avoid bad situations, we know how to "Talk people down". What do you do when there was NO WARNING? That is what we try to help with !
Just remember, this was a rural service and dispatch asked us to check on him. They knew what the available resources were and they aparently needed us to check.
_________________
Saving Yours.............while you save others!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is my story.
It was an early morning call like any other. It was still dark outside, it was around 5:30 when we were called out for an elderly woman having problems with her pacemaker. I was moonlighting on the ambulance because I had switched to full time law enforcement.
The patient was an elderly female in her late 70's and her daughter (mid-50's) was present. The patient requested transport to a hospital in Jefferson City.
En Route to the hospital, dispatch called and advised us of a report of an "unresponsive" male in a ditch. They asked if we could check on him. (Not uncommon for a rural service)
My partner (EMT) was driving and he asked if if we should stop. I told him that our patient was stable and he could "check" and at least provide some basic skills if needed.
Sure enough within a couple of minutes I felt the ambulance slow down. I looked up from the bench seat, out the win shield. I could see a black male, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans prone in the ditch.
My partner made a U-turn and placed us facing south on the Northbound shoulder. He exited and I apologized to the patient and her daughter (riding in the front passenger seat) for the inconvenience.
A short time later the back doors opened and my partner was standing there with the man from the ditch. I could smell a strong odor of an intoxicating beverage fill the back of the truck.
I looked at my partner and said "Let him have a seat on the bumper and call him a ride." (Trying to tell him to get law enforcement on the way)
The doors shut and I began to take a set of vitals. I heard the door chime, looked up in time to see a black arm putting the ambulance in drive. (My partner was a white male)
As we began moving forward, I jumped up and dove into the opening between the "box" and the cab. I was outstretched on my knees. I used my right hand to put the gear shift back into park. That made an awful noise and threw us all forward.
The man then punched me in the side of the face. I began to tell the woman to remove the keys from the ignition. She was frozen in fear and began to pray aloud. ( I wish I was kidding). \
Millions of things began to rush through my head...Where is my partner? Is he dead? Was he injured?
I tried to strike the man in the side of the neck. (Remember I am on my knees with one hand still holding the gear shift up as the engine races)
Right now the man has committed several crimes including kidnapping, Felony Assault, Driving while intoxicated and a car-jacking. Several of these would allow the use of deadly force in self-defense. ( This was the first time that I had left my gun at the station. Since then I never brought it back to the ambulance) I would have been justified in shooting him, but think of the "perception" if I would have.
What seemed like an eternity had passed, then the passenger door opened and there was my partner. He tried to get over the lady in the passenger seat SA she prayed. I yelled at him to come around and remove the keys. He did.
When the engine was off, I yelled "Jerk this mother -...... outa here!"
My partner grabbed him by his feet and pulled him out. I crawled out thought the driver's door and wanted to hurt him. All of a sudden, "Use of Force" guidelines came to mind and I backed off.
I remembered I had a patient so I went back into the back of the truck and called (rather upset) to dispatch begging for assistance.
The man tried to get up and attack my partner again. I tackled him and placed him in a cuffing position for over 20 minutes until law enforcement arrived.
Looking back it would have been better to have had my partner drive us away, but I didn't have that in my mind at the time.
Even with all of the training and experience I had as a police officer and a paramedic, I was still caught by surprise.
Now you know why I created DT4EMS. We all know how to avoid bad situations, we know how to "Talk people down". What do you do when there was NO WARNING? That is what we try to help with !
Just remember, this was a rural service and dispatch asked us to check on him. They knew what the available resources were and they aparently needed us to check.
_________________
Saving Yours.............while you save others!
Wingnut
EMS Junkie
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TTLWHKR
Forum Deputy Chief
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Since EMS is supposed to be neutral, I am strongly against keeping weapons on board. By that I mean guns. You can always keep a small bat or something and say it's for knocking ice off the mudflaps. But no guns; aside from the fact that public knowledge of it would make us targets, you would be deaf if it fired inside the ambulance. Not to mention all of the stainless steel objects it could reflect off and hit you, partner, patients, etc. Nothing wrong with protecting your life with a good old fashion steel cylinder. I have one in the garage, we removed the valve, and filled it w/ 2" of cement, and replaced the valve. It's something found on all ambulances and it is never questioned. The good thing about it is there is no oxygen in it, it won't blow up and you can hit and throw it to protect yourself.
OP
OP
DT4EMS
Kip Teitsort, Founder
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I agree with no firearms on an ambulance (now) after my incident. I still carry a TDK (tactical duty knife). It just so happens that I train in Kali-Silat.........a knife art.