Saudi Red Crescent Authority

[HEMS driver]

Celts, you can rant and rave, but I did not say anything about the SRCA doing pilot staffing. Read my post again.

Abu Dhabi Aviation is the contractor that we are discussing, yes? The SRCA is the customer.

Now, let me help you. It is LIKELY that Abu Dhabi Aviation will be staffing their flight crews with "westerners" because you won't find Pakistani, Indian, Sri Lankan or Philippino flight crew. BTW, flight crew in aviation terminology means PILOTS.

It is the same for pilot trainers and managers.

Clear as mud? :beerchug:

 

[HubblyBubbly]

Abu Dhabi Aviation is the contractor that we are discussing, yes? The SRCA is the customer.

This is true but who pulls the strings ( and pays the bills)???? If it is not done the way the SRCA, as the customer want, Abu Dhabi Aviation like AA will get the arse Arab or not.

The bottom line is the clowns running the SRCA have no idea. I am not saying this because of bitter feelings towards the SRCA. I am saying it because I know the string pullers and their experience/background/qualifications.

The new regime led by boy wonder (Dr R) and his handpicked minnions do not like to be outdone by people who have experience/qualifications and a background in what they are trying to achieve both air and ground.

 

[HubblyBubbly]

At the business end of these airframes sitting in the hot seat will be Arab guys lead by Capt Fantastic himself.

Are you referring to Captain/Doctor Fantastic? How many hours did he have flying? If someone can explain to me how someone can complete a medical degree and be a commercial rated HEMS Pilot at the same time?

I have known many med students and the poor suckers do not see the light of day for years because of study. Either the guy is Einstien or somethings going to suffer (work performance wise).

He is a good swimmer though, used to see him cavorting with a SRCA staff member (expat) in the compound pool. Theres some pics about probably on facebook or somewhereB)

 

[celts]

Hey Bubblies.....Just having fun here with HEMS Driver. I think I worked out who he is??? He must be a buddy of Capt Fantastic!!! He wouldnt know if his NOTAR was on fire!!!

 

[S_Steingrobe]

Hey guys,

I have just red a lots of your post over the last weeks and I must say: interesting.

As the CEO of a world wide biggest operating Company in establishing and creating EMS Systems for countries, I am interesting in your details about whats going on in Saudi actual.

As you said, there a not much information coming out from saudi, so I need someone, who can tell me more about the actual situation.
Even its good for you guys, sitting there without any structure in the EMS System even existing. Sounds so.

We are having some meetings in the next couple of weeks with the "important" people in the kingdom to discuss a project plan which includes the establishment of an international guided and based EMS System (ALS) and an operational HEMS Service.

As HEMS academy and international acting HEMS Organisation as well, we have our own crews and pilots, who are able to train and to establish the required service, based on European standarts, which are (sorry) higher than the american standarts for HEMS Operations.
Thats not the thing, but as I red in your articels, they got some Helos from the Abu Dhabi Aviation. Its not mentioned in the articel, I have seen, they would provided the service.
Whatever, even if they want. I know the services in Abu Dhabi. The only professional service thereover is falcon aviation. Dont trust the rest. So in this case, there is not really an HEMS Service coming, we know probalby.

It would be very helpfull to get as much information as I can from you guys, to set the papers up to its best. So in this case, we got the project, there would be much better situations in HEMS Service and in ground based EMS as its now.
SOPs, structurized units and stations, medications (ALS) and normal know devices. and and and. Thats what we want, thats what SCRA shows they need.

Please write me if you have something for me, which could help us to get in and even make your workplace a little bit more save and structurized.

Thanks for your time,

Sascha

 

[HubblyBubbly]

Well done S_Steingrobe. It is not long ago you were applying for a job with the SRCA. Now CEO. Well done

If you want info contact the Germans that left the SRCA over the last two years. One has posted on this thread. They will give an honest account.

By the look of your post is your company is seriously looking at doing business in Saudi?

 

[S_Steingrobe]

Hey Hubble,

yes I have applied for a job, but it was just to check the situation of recruiting and to get in contact to people who are responsible.

Do you know the name of the German who has left the SCRA?

Yes we are interested in doing buisness in Saudi. We have already had smaller projects in the middle east and we know about the pro and contra doing business in this part of the world^^.

 

[2easy4u]

Money talks

The biggest most important thing that you can tell the Saudi's is. PAY THE GUYS THAT STARTED THE PROGRAM. I will tell you this. If the company that got the contract has no HEMS experience very bad and unforgiving things are going to happen. They apparently think that you can just throw some things in a helo and take off. No flight following no maintenance no experience. Pilots with five minutes of stick time. They are going to kill a bunch of people before they stop this program. The # 1 reason is, you can't fix stupid. They will just have to find out on their own because they the SRCA won't listen. I just hope and pray that we can get the word spread fast enough to western flight crew to stay away. I really don't see how the Saudi's believe that they can attract flight crew when they haven't paid the first flight crews that gave them what frame work that they currently have. Once any one with any experience finds out how they want to run the program will run as fast as they can away from this mess. I was one of the first eleven, we all had compassion and for the Saudi people. And we all had a passion to start up this program safe and build something that would last and be successful for many years. However there was a power change and the new guy. Dr Rasheed runs the program just like the ground service. And when any one suggests that we have to do the job a certain that has already been proven to be safe and successful for decades he reacts like a four year old child that didn't get the candy bar that he wanted. He used his power to push the professionals out because they won't run an unsafe program. And he is using the non pay issue to exact revenge. Mark my words here. If the SRCA continues down the path that they have taken you can expect a disaster in a very short time causing multiple deaths. That's reality. But I'm sure that your all excited about the new/old project. Go for it man,get in there and get you a big mess of it. And then after, read this post again.

 

[DesertMedic]

I am also one of the original flight medics....and also one who hasn't been paid. I have been in the mid-east off and on since Mar 2003 and Saudi is the 5th country I have worked in in the mid-east. I am very accustomed to arabic ways and I have to say that what went on with the SRCA was unlike anything else I have experienced in the mid-east. We came in and set up a top level service at least with what meds we could get and and they never supported or paid us. Why would you ask for a service if you have no intention on paying. Now you say your service will be a higher level than an American service and I would have to observe for myself but that was the best thing about the HEMS program we set up because we had paramedics from 5 different countries, everyone functioned well together and we took the best attributes from all countries so you would be hard pressed to find a better program. That being said, it feels like it is all a big game to the management of SRCA and that they just wanted to use us to see how it should be done, stiff us, and then try to mimic the program we set up. The sad truth of this is that people left good jobs, poured their hearts into this program, and all they received in return was getting stiffed on pay and having their lives turned upside down. We are in a professional field and to be treated like that is unacceptable. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors but I would never recommend anyone working for/ with the SRCA unless they do something to weed out the corruption and realize there is no room for ego's when it comes to an organization that is in charge of saving peoples lives.

 

[2easy4u]

Well Done

Thanks Desert Medic. You said it very succinctly and professionally.

 

[goatlab]

Hey guys,


As the CEO of a world wide biggest operating Company in establishing and creating EMS Systems for countries, I am interesting in your details about whats going on in Saudi actual.

We are having some meetings in the next couple of weeks with the "important" people in the kingdom to discuss a project plan which includes the establishment of an international guided and based EMS System (ALS) and an operational HEMS Service.

As HEMS academy and international acting HEMS Organisation as well, we have our own crews and pilots, who are able to train and to establish the required service, based on European standarts, which are (sorry) higher than the american standarts for HEMS Operations.
Thats not the thing, but as I red in your articels, they got some Helos from the Abu Dhabi Aviation. Its not mentioned in the articel, I have seen, they would provided the service.
Whatever, even if they want. I know the services in Abu Dhabi. The only professional service thereover is falcon aviation. Dont trust the rest. So in this case, there is not really an HEMS Service coming, we know probalby.

It would be very helpfull to get as much information as I can from you guys, to set the papers up to its best. So in this case, we got the project, there would be much better situations in HEMS Service and in ground based EMS as its now.
SOPs, structurized units and stations, medications (ALS) and normal know devices. and and and. Thats what we want, thats what SCRA shows they need.

Please write me if you have something for me, which could help us to get in and even make your workplace a little bit more save and structurized.

Thanks for your time,

Sascha

S_Steingrobe

Best advice, demand payment in advance.

Don't apologize for having higher standards than the America HEMS in Europe but the reality is you won't in Europe, you'll be in Saudi. Therefore you'll have to comply with GACA rules. One object we were working toward for SRCA was Part 135 certification under GACA. If they still want their 135 cert you are in for a lot of work and headaches.

If you truly are going to have meetings with "important" people in Saudi then I'd suggest you limit your comments on this thread, they are monitored by SRCA.

PM me if you want more info on what happened.

 

[alelkins]

Pay

I'm confused...were you guys that didn't get paid working for SRCA or Action Aviation? Because I was under the impression you were AA employees...

 

[2easy4u]

Tangled up mess

At this point the responsible party is the one that has all the money. I guess one way to detail it would be kind of like if you were building a house and you hired a guy to supervise the building of the house because you didn't know how to do it. This guy lets call him Mac Daddy is reputable and is a professional. Mac in turn hires specialized framers because the house plans will have to have guys with special skills and there are only say a handful of these special framers on the planet. You have already tried to build this house once using the people in your area that didn't have these special skills and it ended in a miserable catastrophe costing several human lives in an accident. Mac Daddy has operated this project for several months without pay from you. Also as part of the extension of Macs contract you have agreed to pay room and board plus transportation for the specialized crews. And over the entire period you have used these items to toy with these crews and Mac Daddy first giving only to take away the transportation and food,and threatening to kick the crews out of the hotel. Bare in mind that you haven't paid for any of this stuff yet. Your just jacking with people because you can and they can't do anything about it because after all these guys are in your country and their life has no value in your country. Finally Mac Daddy tells you that he can no longer pay the people that have been working on your house because he has used all of his money building your house. You simply laugh in his face and keep smoking your crack that you have become hooked on. Because you must be on crack to think that your house will be constructed free of charge. Mac Daddy tells the crews what has happened and gives some hope of getting paid later. Several of the crew leave and go back home the following day. You in turn are running a little low on crack the day after and decide to jack with Mac and his crew because you realize that people are in fact leaving. You hold the remaining crews hostage and make Mac pay a wad of money just so these guys can go home. Mac pays the money and those wanting to go are allowed to. Now two months later these crews still haven't been paid and your still on the crack only worse now because your trying to get some one else to come in and build your free house for you. Now when the person that you work for is broke and can't pay the responsible party is the owner because he is the beneficiary of the hard work already performed.

I was raised in building construction. My father taught me that depending on the circumstances. That means finding the fault or problem regarding pay you eventually have to get paid. And you may have to either expose the bad guy to every one in the profession or you might even have to go kick the guys *** a few times before he pays you. Usually my father knew exactly what went on behind the scenes and went straight to the guy trying to screw every one and beat his *** until he paid. Of course that is all old school. I hope the story I told helps you understand that the AA crews poured their heart into this project only to be jacked around by what must be a crack head.

 

[goatlab]

2easy4u

I like the way you put that.

 

[NJFLGHTMDC]

Higher Standards?!?

"As HEMS academy and international acting HEMS Organisation as well, we have our own crews and pilots, who are able to train and to establish the required service, based on European standarts, which are (sorry) higher than the american standarts for HEMS Operations."

Why is it that after your name you list FP-C, and CCEMT-P? These are all certifications given here in America. If your European certifications and standards are so superior, then I would imagine it to be beneath you to even advertise your certified in such. You even go on to put the logo as your Blog Icon. Are you kidding me?

 

[alelkins]

I sympathize entirely. It's a bugger of a situation. As I posted previously, there is plenty of blame to go around. Also, as I have beat this horse beyond recognition, I will just make these parting comments.

I too was a residential contractor. I am familiar with the dynamic of which you write. However, during my tenure as a builder, I NEVER stiffed those who worked for me, because they worked for ME. If I had an issue with the client, it was mine. My guys always got a paycheck. That's the nature of good business.

As for the relationship between AA and SRCA, I only know what I have been told, which was, that the contract was initally for some 52 million dollars (+/-) and 1/2 had been paid to AA by SRCA. There seems to be some questions about the remaining 26 million (or somewherre thereabouts) and that was a participating catalyst in the reorganization of the SRCA.

I truly hope the AA guys get their payroll for time served. No one deserves to get the shaft after doing their best in good faith. I'm sure AA could write the payroll checks anytime if they chose to do so. I also intend to let this stuff go and focus on the future, and appreciate the Japanese perspective; It doesn't matter whosew fault it is, let's just fix it.

I call on SRCA to pay what's owed, AA to pay what's owed, and everyone chalk up some expensive education as we move forward with EMS in KSA.

Best wishes to all!

 

[2easy4u]

I understand

I and my father made sure any one working for us got paid regardless if we collected on the contract. But as I have indicated in previous posts. All have responsibility. I feel it is extremely important for the HEMS community to see and understand what has transpired so that as this goes forward every one understands and knows the complications and problems to be avoided. As far as letting go. I have moved on with everything except for making sure fellow flight crew are not put in jeopardy. I definitely want and expect to be paid. I will continue to pursue that where ever it takes me. In the mean time I will also continue to point out the bad guys in my story with passion. AA may have the money to pay every one today. I however have no reason currently to believe that. But I do know for certain that the SRCA can make all of this go away in seconds if they pay their bills.

 

[S_Steingrobe]

"As HEMS academy and international acting HEMS Organisation as well, we have our own crews and pilots, who are able to train and to establish the required service, based on European standarts, which are (sorry) higher than the american standarts for HEMS Operations."

Why is it that after your name you list FP-C, and CCEMT-P? These are all certifications given here in America. If your European certifications and standards are so superior, then I would imagine it to be beneath you to even advertise your certified in such. You even go on to put the logo as your Blog Icon. Are you kidding me?

FP-C And CCEMTP are only medical educations!! In my personal data its asked for Paramedic Training. Has nothing to do with operational training for aircrafts. Thats why these education are listed. Thats the difference. We have although an operational HEMS education on top in Europe especially in Germany which is the an HEMS Crew Member Education. This is a 6-8 Weeks education made with the govermental medical flight training center. Only with this education, you are allowed to fly as a medic, because you are the second to the pic. Advanced meterology, navigation with different avionics, radio and and and are things to have been learned. Its a non medical education just operation only. BTW you make your W-Operator.
I dont wanna say the american is worth. Just wanna say, we have a some more things to go through, not only a medical education which is needed, like in the states. Maybe you have changed your rules, but then its new to me, that you need something like this education by law.

Cheers Sascha

 

[S_Steingrobe]

BTW, if have made my FP-C in Germany, we although have the IAFP Germany here, brought over from the States and I have done my CCEMTP in the States in Baltimore.
So long ^^

 

[S_Steingrobe]

I sympathize entirely. It's a bugger of a situation.

You mean me with that?