Rural EMS Response Times

MMiz

I put the M in EMTLife
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After driving through many rural areas lately, I'm wondering how rural departments handle navigating mountains/tough terrain with extended response times.

Are people in these communities comfortable in knowing that EMS could be up to 30 minutes away? Do you use helicopter service to fly patients more often?

Coming from a system with a 10 minute commute to a trauma center I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable living life so removed from emergency medical care.
 
but unfortunately there is no alternative. A friend from my Basic class is in a district where they cover 90 square miles because they have as much as they can get with the taxes of the population in that area. Mutual aid sometimes takes an hour to show up for larger fires.

I don't believe they lifeflight more patients but a lot of calls are also bs just as in an urban area
 
In an area where the nearest hospital is an hour in any direction, we average about a 13 minute response time to get on scene. We do tend to fly a larger percentage of patients than districts that are closer to the hospital because the helicopter can get them to a higher level of care than we could in the same amount of time going by ground.
 
We don't generally air evac from the scene. Only seen that twice here. Usually we stabilize and transport to the closest hospital and they are flown to Harborview from there. We do have an LZ book but its often a crap shoot which is going to be faster, getting the pt to an approved LZ or getting them to the hospital.

Most of the citizens where I live have chosen to live here because of the seclusion, not in spite of it. They are often surprised that medical care is available as quickly as it is.

Rural living and I mean truly rural living is a very different lifestyle. I am a good half hour from the closest grocery store. There's a small general store with very overpriced food, gas, beer, wine and smokes about 5 miles away but its generally a spot for the tourists. We deal regularly with power outages, road washouts, no water or boil water advisories. There's only one highway through the middle of the area and a big MVA can bring traffic on it to a dead stop for hours. We have a 50 mile highway with a number of bridges across it. There are only two or three arterials that bridge the gap between it and 101.


People here are more likely to load Wilbur into the back of the pickup and yard him out of the woods than to expect an EMS unit to come help him on scene. An MVA rollover may or may not still be there when we arrive on scene. More likely than not, three buddies showed up with a winch and hauled it out of the ditch so he didn't get another DUI, since he's the only one left with a license and he drives all of them to work.

In order to be comfortable here you have to be pretty self reliant. I would say half my calls, probably 2/3s in the summer months are tourists, not locals.
 
When I work rural

We have fairly decent response times, often not exceeding 7-8 minutes. It usually takes us a bit longer to respond to MVAs, as many MVAs are not in the "city." We do have a QRU that assists us with calls to the south and to the east of our base, and their response time is often 3 minutes or less.

Although we often have crews sleeping at the facility, there are times when responders must reach the station from their own places first, increasing times. So far, our outliers have been:

~45 seconds for a call two houses from station
~45 minutes for a logging accident, in a snowstorm, with 29 miles to travel on a dirt road. Air medical assisted.

Although we have a main population center that lives within about 4 miles of station, we do have other "villages" that are considerably further away. Overall, we cover just over 600 square miles. Our nearest hospital is < 1 mile from the station (Trauma Receiving center only.), but our nearest level 2 center is 80 miles. A new doctor once told me that we were on "trauma diversion" because he "didn't feel comfortable" with so many MVAs. :P That silly man didn't realize that we couldn't really do that where we were.

Recently, we put in a longer, wider runway (w/ VASI) to facilitate fixed wings. For transports that are not critical, we run a two-man transport. For more emergent transports, we are usually given an RN to accompany. We also often have helicopters meet us at the hospital or on scene. (Logging accident, MVA, etc.), and we'll occasionally meet the helicopter at some halfway point, especially if the weather is bad. There have been times where air medical couldn't make it all the way because of weather, so a CRNA and MD came along until the rendezvous. We generally flight out 1 of every 12 calls. MVAs generally flight 1 of every 4 calls.

With all that said, the people that live way out here in Montana generally do so because they don't want to be around many people. From what I know, most are just happy with the arrangement. If they get hurt way out in the woods, SAR will deal with them, and our SAR has a lot of very experienced people. (Dive teams, ropes, medical, etc.) SAR also tends to use a certain medical helicopter from up north, as they are more comfortable with some of the flying required.

I have heard a few people grumble about a long response time here or there. It's unfortunate, but we get wrong directions sometimes, and we also have people that end up stuck in a vehicle for a lot longer than we'd like because no one saw them. With the area that we cover, I think we do quite well.

Ok, enough of my long-winded reply.
 
Most of the citizens where I live have chosen to live here because of the seclusion, not in spite of it.

(Amen!)

More likely than not, three buddies showed up with a winch and hauled it out of the ditch so he didn't get another DUI.

(I've seen patients actually running away from MVAs...it's weird to be sitting in my ambulance while I watch a state trooper run after and then tackle my patient.)

In order to be comfortable here you have to be pretty self reliant.

(Exactly. A lot of the things I have witnessed in rural EMS are just fascinating. It's the sort of thing you have to experience to get the full effect of.)

Might I say that I enjoyed your post immensely, ma'am? My situation (Well, when I do my rural time, which is only about 3-4 months out of the year.) is very similar! We do live in the mountains, and a lot of the MVAs that we get do require a LZ by the scene due to extrication times, so that is a bit different. Some of the situations I've been in have really been "oh poopie" moments, but rural often comes down to ingenuity. Although creative use of resources might not be ideal, it's amazing what can happen when that's all that's left.
 
After driving through many rural areas lately, I'm wondering how rural departments handle navigating mountains/tough terrain with extended response times.

Are people in these communities comfortable in knowing that EMS could be up to 30 minutes away? Do you use helicopter service to fly patients more often?

Coming from a system with a 10 minute commute to a trauma center I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable living life so removed from emergency medical care.

I work in a relatively rural area now - endless farm land with roads a mile apart at minimum - and we still make decent response times of less than 10 minutes. Then again, we post 3 trucks throughout the county. Our biggest problem is weather, which we are experiencing right now. Bad enough, and we can be delayed by 20 minutes, easily. As for the question though, yes, we do use helicopters when possible. That's the one benefit of endless farmland. Plenty of spots to land.
 
For those of you that live in the mountains, do you get used to coding in the mountains?
 
For those of you that live in the mountains, do you get used to coding in the mountains?


Having finished an unfun code recently, I'm reminded that a problem with mountains is that a lot of people like to live WAY up in them, and when we get a code...well, the outcome is predictable. Slamming around on hard dirt roads also surely hurts our CPR. It isn't uncommon for people to live well over twenty miles from the hospital, many of those miles on dirt, so medical control is often ready to call it for us.

Our water, however, is a very different situation. It's very cold many months out of the year, and some rivers are snow fed all summer. We all know the saying, "not dead until warm and dead," and that's applicable. I personally hate water rescues. I've done a few, including one where a cop also ended up in trouble...at night. Thanks to some faulty directions it was one of the worst nights I've ever had. :wacko:
 
Might I say that I enjoyed your post immensely, ma'am?

Ma'am? Sigh.. okay.. now I really feel old!

And MMiz.. do you ever 'get used' to coding anyone anywhere?
 
We don't generally air evac from the scene. Only seen that twice here. Usually we stabilize and transport to the closest hospital and they are flown to Harborview from there. We do have an LZ book but its often a crap shoot which is going to be faster, getting the pt to an approved LZ or getting them to the hospital.

Most of the citizens where I live have chosen to live here because of the seclusion, not in spite of it. They are often surprised that medical care is available as quickly as it is.

Rural living and I mean truly rural living is a very different lifestyle. I am a good half hour from the closest grocery store. There's a small general store with very overpriced food, gas, beer, wine and smokes about 5 miles away but its generally a spot for the tourists. We deal regularly with power outages, road washouts, no water or boil water advisories. There's only one highway through the middle of the area and a big MVA can bring traffic on it to a dead stop for hours. We have a 50 mile highway with a number of bridges across it. There are only two or three arterials that bridge the gap between it and 101.


People here are more likely to load Wilbur into the back of the pickup and yard him out of the woods than to expect an EMS unit to come help him on scene. An MVA rollover may or may not still be there when we arrive on scene. More likely than not, three buddies showed up with a winch and hauled it out of the ditch so he didn't get another DUI, since he's the only one left with a license and he drives all of them to work.

In order to be comfortable here you have to be pretty self reliant. I would say half my calls, probably 2/3s in the summer months are tourists, not locals.

Amen bro! Same here! Stevens County Sheriffs Ambulance.
Where in WA are you?
 
~45 seconds for a call two houses from station
~45 minutes for a logging accident, in a snowstorm, with 29 miles to travel on a dirt road. Air medical assisted.

How about 15 seconds for a guy around the corner of the building in our parking lot?
Or about 70 minutes to the corner of our district in a snowstorm up single lane dirt (ice?) tracks for a lady who "couldn't breath" because (We found out on scene) she was worried that it would not stop snowing! ( I love these calls, don't you?)
 
We have fairly decent response times, often not exceeding 7-8 minutes. It usually takes us a bit longer to respond to MVAs, as many MVAs are not in the "city." We do have a QRU that assists us with calls to the south and to the east of our base, and their response time is often 3 minutes or less.

Although we often have crews sleeping at the facility, there are times when responders must reach the station from their own places first, increasing times. So far, our outliers have been:

~45 seconds for a call two houses from station
~45 minutes for a logging accident, in a snowstorm, with 29 miles to travel on a dirt road. Air medical assisted.

Although we have a main population center that lives within about 4 miles of station, we do have other "villages" that are considerably further away. Overall, we cover just over 600 square miles. Our nearest hospital is < 1 mile from the station (Trauma Receiving center only.), but our nearest level 2 center is 80 miles. A new doctor once told me that we were on "trauma diversion" because he "didn't feel comfortable" with so many MVAs. :P That silly man didn't realize that we couldn't really do that where we were.

Recently, we put in a longer, wider runway (w/ VASI) to facilitate fixed wings. For transports that are not critical, we run a two-man transport. For more emergent transports, we are usually given an RN to accompany. We also often have helicopters meet us at the hospital or on scene. (Logging accident, MVA, etc.), and we'll occasionally meet the helicopter at some halfway point, especially if the weather is bad. There have been times where air medical couldn't make it all the way because of weather, so a CRNA and MD came along until the rendezvous. We generally flight out 1 of every 12 calls. MVAs generally flight 1 of every 4 calls.

With all that said, the people that live way out here in Montana generally do so because they don't want to be around many people. From what I know, most are just happy with the arrangement. If they get hurt way out in the woods, SAR will deal with them, and our SAR has a lot of very experienced people. (Dive teams, ropes, medical, etc.) SAR also tends to use a certain medical helicopter from up north, as they are more comfortable with some of the flying required.

I have heard a few people grumble about a long response time here or there. It's unfortunate, but we get wrong directions sometimes, and we also have people that end up stuck in a vehicle for a lot longer than we'd like because no one saw them. With the area that we cover, I think we do quite well.

Ok, enough of my long-winded reply.

I am one of those QRU's Hal9000 speaks of and he is correct on all parts. I have run calls that are as close at both of my neighbors on both sides of my house, to one a few weeks ago that was almost 20 miles of gravel. Took me over 25 minutes to get there.

What part of Montana are you in Hal??
 
I am one of those QRU's Hal9000 speaks of and he is correct on all parts. I have run calls that are as close at both of my neighbors on both sides of my house, to one a few weeks ago that was almost 20 miles of gravel. Took me over 25 minutes to get there.

What part of Montana are you in Hal??

Hey Jerry, if all of what I posted makes sense to you, we might live pretty close by! Although I'm currently (And actually spend 2/3-3/4 of the year.) in Billings, I work rural EMS in Sanders County, which is in the northwestern part of the state. My family has a house near the small town of Plains. Close-by QRUs are Big Horn QRU and St. Regis QRU. The St. Regis one gets a lot of crazy wrecks, from what I understand, because the location (Interstate, curves, and mountains.) is rough on some drivers. Nice to see another person from MT! Certainly a beautiful place, though not so much out here in the east. We often use LifeFlight, Alert, and Community CareFlight. Be interested to hear your story!
 
75 miles to trauma center here, 150 to tertiary....takes STARS 45 minutes to get out here. ALS intercept is about 20 minutes if both of us are flying at 90 mph towards each other (not in the wintertime).

Basically, if you have a life-threatening emergency that cannot be managed by BLS arriving within 20 minutes around here, you die, lol.:ph34r:
 
Our county epitomizes the "rural-urban interface" of America these days. When I work in the city, my backup is only minutes away at best, since we have 3 units and a medic QRV at the downtown station. Our outstations are another matter; if you're working a code at the rest area out on the interstate, your backup might be ~20 minutes or more, depending on the current call volume. Thankfully, our volunteer firefighters are a wonderful group and can be counted on to respond within just a few minutes. Some are EMT's, but even the non-medical types are more than willing to drive the unit to the hospital. We do probably utilize the helo's more than some, but our closest Level 1 center is 45 minutes by ground and we can't transport directly from the scene by ground, everyone has to go to our local hospital first unless the bird comes to get them. We have also quit airevac'ing based solely on MOI; if they don't need the bird they don't get the bird. That said, I love the area and am willing to continue exchanging the convenience of living right in the city for the friendliness and quiet of my neighborhood. Wal-Mart is only 12 miles, and the guy at the corner plants about 750 acres of cotton or wheat every year. It ain't "Green Acres", but it's close...lol
 
What is a QRU/QRV?
 
What is a QRU/QRV?

I am an EMT-Basic volunteer in a statewide system of "Quick Response Teams" (QRT's) that are made up of individuals labeled "Quick Response Units" (QRU's).

As has already been mentioned, there are VAST areas of this state that are seriously remote and at times (mainly winter) severely unaccessable to ALS unless it can fly to you. However, regardless of where you are in this state, you can bet that there are countless QRU's (this is a BLS service) that can get to you and will do their best to get you to ALS alive and "in one piece."

HAL - I am just a few miles south of Great Falls and will be in Billings this weekend taking a Lead Instructors Course with the head of the Board of Medical Examiners.
 
What is a QRU/QRV?

Quick Response Unit/Quick Response Vehicle. In my service, it's a utility truck normally used by the on-duty supervisor. It has a stair chair, a couple of flat litters/LSB's, some tools, etc. Some agencies use theirs to carry hydraulic cutting tools, lifting bags, and other extrication equipment.
 
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