Role of EMTs in Ohio executions criticized

[reaper]

I hope you have not been and never become a victim of rape. I'm willing to bet if you took a survey of rape victims, most of their opinions of the death penalty would differ greatly from yours.

And as for the rape victim being alive, many victims live with lifelong emotional, physical, and psychological scars after being raped. Many are never the same, and some, commit suicide.

So do you feel the same about child rapists?

(Note: I know this isnt the topic intended for this thread, but you've got me going now...)

Why do you feel that someone can not have their own opinions and beliefs? Does not matter if she has been raped or not. Does not matter if it is a child rapist or and adult rapist. She is allowed to form her opinions.

That is as bad as someone else stating that she does not have children, so she doesn't understand. That is Bull puckey! People are able to form their own opinions and read all they want to come to that opinion.

Do I believe in Death sentence for rapists? No I don't! But I believe in castration for them and only if there is solid evidence that they are guilty of the crime!

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Do I believe in Death sentence for rapists? No I don't! But I believe in castration for them and only if there is solid evidence that they are guilty of the crime!

What about female rapest and molesters? They do exist. I'd prefer not to take the chance that someone with a history of sexual assault is "all better" and release them back into my neighborhood. IMHO.

 

[mycrofft]

An executiner who knows how to put a needle in a vein is not a health pro.

And if it's ok for us to kill em at San Q, then why not in the hospital?

We have to keep the buffer between killing for the courts, and medical practice, widely separated, or our fringier cohorts will do something rash.

 

[Sasha]

I hope you have not been and never become a victim of rape. I'm willing to bet if you took a survey of rape victims, most of their opinions of the death penalty would differ greatly from yours.

And as for the rape victim being alive, many victims live with lifelong emotional, physical, and psychological scars after being raped. Many are never the same, and some, commit suicide.

So do you feel the same about child rapists?

(Note: I know this isnt the topic intended for this thread, but you've got me going now...)

You can't speak for rape victims or their opinion on the death penalty, becuase you have no idea what's going on in their mind! Many learn to forgive, many understand that the person who did that to them was sick, but they would be getting help in jail.

Some commit suicide, but many are alive, perhaps they have emotional problems, but is that not living? I believe the insinuation that that's not living is an insult to anyone with mental problems! Therapy can and does work.

How are you going to weed out the false accusations? The ones who don't know who their rapist was, but want someone, anyone, to pay and hurt the way they hurt?

I'm in support of the death penalty for murder, only if they have been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt with undisputable DNA, video evidence, or something along those lines. Short of a video or audio tape there is no sure fire way that you can be 100% sure for rape or molestation accusations. Too many girls take rape as something to be taken lightly and make false accusations out of shame or anger.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

And if it's ok for us to kill em at San Q, then why not in the hospital?

We have to keep the buffer between killing for the courts, and medical practice, widely separated, or our fringier cohorts will do something rash.

So a phlebotomist in a hospital is not a health care professional? Because that is really all that they would train a guard to be.

And there is a big diff between executing someone convicted of a crime and someone who is suffering in a hospital… mind you I am kind of for that as well.

 

[fortsmithman]

Instead of executing them why not do this lock them in cells that are soundproof and just let them sit do nothing do not allow them to have any reading material except maybe the bible. Also take out all clocks watches from their cells. the only time they would be allowed out would be for a shower and then that would be one at a time. Just let them sit no talking. One thing I find odd about death row is that if an inmate tries to kill themselves the authorities revive them they should just let them die.

 

[CAOX3]

I don't believe anyone besides an MD should be administering a lethal injection.

As far as debating the death penalty and eligibility. I don't believe this is the place, however I know one thing, emotion should never factor into those decisions.

 

[HotelCo]

Toby Keith... Smarter Man...

Well a man come on the 6 o'clock news
Said somebody's been shot, somebody's been abused
Somebody blew up a building
Somebody stole a car
Somebody got away
Somebody didn't get too far yeah
They didn't get too far

Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
We'll all meet back at the local saloon
We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
We've got too much corruption, too much crime in the streets
It's time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
Send 'em all to their maker and he'll settle 'em down
You can bet he'll set 'em down 'cause

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
We'll all meet back at the local saloon
We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
We'll all meet back at the local saloon
We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

I really don't feel like reading all of that.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Instead of executing them why not do this lock them in cells that are soundproof and just let them sit do nothing do not allow them to have any reading material except maybe the bible. Also take out all clocks watches from their cells. the only time they would be allowed out would be for a shower and then that would be one at a time. Just let them sit no talking. One thing I find odd about death row is that if an inmate tries to kill themselves the authorities revive them they should just let them die.

Because liberals like to scream about prisioner rights. that is why they have better health care than most americans, healthier food, free "gym pass", easier access to drugs in prision, oh... and now in California (if the powers that be have their way) free condoms. We treat prisioners so well that I am tempted to book a room. And let's be honest, if killing a person swiftly ina humane fashion is "cruel and unusual" than what do we call forcing someone to live in a 6x6 cell, with no outside stimuli, no books, no clocks, and no talking for 40 or 50 years? THAT IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL to them and just wrong for our money (40-50 k a year per prisioner) to go to supporting murderes, rapists, and drug dealers. Ya, that solution is so much better.

I really don't feel like reading all of that.

Um.... so don't.

 

[Sasha]

And let's be honest, if killing a person swiftly ina humane fashion is "cruel and unusual" than what do we call forcing someone to live in a 6x6 cell, with no outside stimuli, no books, no clocks, and no talking for 40 or 50 years? THAT IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL to them

In your opinion. Some would prefer to live like that than die. It

 

[mikie]

personally against the DP...but that's not my question:

Why even have EMT's, no matter which training, there? So what happens if something goes wrong with the administration of the medicine...do you think they'll transport to the hospital or perform extreme interventions?

We might not take the same 'do no harm' vows, but nonetheless, our goal is for are patients to live.....right?

And who signs up for this...to be an EMT-E*?

*executioner

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

In your opinion. Some would prefer to live like that than die. It

I hate dieting. Yes, I would rather being in prison rather than be forced to cut out the grease, caffine, fat, and sugar! ^_^

But I would rather be dead than live in that insanity. And while that is my opinion, it doesn't make it less valid than the person who says that execution is cruel and unusual. I just don't understand how the criminal should be given the choice in what they prefer.

 

[SauceyEMT]

Why do you feel that someone can not have their own opinions and beliefs? Does not matter if she has been raped or not. Does not matter if it is a child rapist or and adult rapist. She is allowed to form her opinions.

That is as bad as someone else stating that she does not have children, so she doesn't understand. That is Bull puckey! People are able to form their own opinions and read all they want to come to that opinion.

Do I believe in Death sentence for rapists? No I don't! But I believe in castration for them and only if there is solid evidence that they are guilty of the crime!

You and everyone else can believe whatever they want. You're mistaking my point of view for what you assume I expect yours to be. I don't make my opinions based on how you form yours, nor do I change mine because someone else doesnt like it, and I'd expect the same from you.

 

[SauceyEMT]

You can't speak for rape victims or their opinion on the death penalty, becuase you have no idea what's going on in their mind!

I'm not speaking for anybody but myself. Note in my post that I said "I'm willing to bet if you took a survey..." I didnt quote all rape victims.

Many learn to forgive, many understand that the person who did that to them was sick, but they would be getting help in jail.

Yeah, yeah...everyone is sick. Noone is at fault for what they do. There is zero accountability now. Everyone has a disorder, or disease that causes their problems. It's the same with addicts. It's not their fault they stick a needle in their arm, or spark the pipe. And for the record...having worked behind the walls (prison), the help anybody gets isnt all it's cracked up to be.

Keep in mind...almost all rapists who are imprisoned, eventually are released. Many, many, reoffend. So tell me how well the treatment worked...

Some commit suicide, but many are alive, perhaps they have emotional problems, but is that not living? I believe the insinuation that that's not living is an insult to anyone with mental problems! Therapy can and does work.

I never said they werent living, I said many are never the same. two entirely different things.

How are you going to weed out the false accusations? The ones who don't know who their rapist was, but want someone, anyone, to pay and hurt the way they hurt?

I'm in support of the death penalty for murder, only if they have been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt with undisputable DNA, video evidence, or something along those lines. Short of a video or audio tape there is no sure fire way that you can be 100% sure for rape or molestation accusations. Too many girls take rape as something to be taken lightly and make false accusations out of shame or anger.

Maybe I should have clarified my stance. I am not seeking the death penalty for a guy at a party who gets drunk and has sex with a woman who then decides it was a bad idea, and cries rape. I'm talking about serial, habitual rapists (and there are many) who victimize many women (generally), and people who victimize children. With forensics, DNA, etc, it's just as solid a case for rape with them, as it is for murder cases. Not to mention, many rapists admit their crimes, and blame "being sick" knowing that a liberal society like ours, will coddle them.

I stand by my statement, although I'll clarify. Serial rapists, child rapists, those who prey on defensless victims...there is no room in society or our jails for them. Swift and severe punishment is the way to go.

You have yours, I have mine.

 

[Sasha]

Yeah, yeah...everyone is sick. Noone is at fault for what they do. There is zero accountability now. Everyone has a disorder, or disease that causes their problems. It's the same with addicts. It's not their fault they stick a needle in their arm, or spark the pipe. And for the record...having worked behind the walls (prison), the help anybody gets isnt all it's cracked up to be.

Keep in mind...almost all rapists who are imprisoned, eventually are released. Many, many, reoffend. So tell me how well the treatment worked...

You stated the problem yourself.

the help anybody gets isnt all it's cracked up to be.

Prisons are not focusing on rehabillitating their inmates, just containing them for the years and then releasing. The rehabilitation programs in jails need some serious work!

I never said they werent living, I said many are never the same. two entirely different things.

Some rape victims will tell you, while it was a horrible thing and caused them a lot of pain, it made them a better person in the long run, some even go on to understand that the person who hurt them was very sick and find some way to forgive them. I'm not excusing it in the least, it's a terrible thing to do to someone, but you assume that being raped is the end of someone's livelyhood is insulting to the victim, they may never be the same, but someone may never be the same after a car accident either, should we execute the car driver? Rape is a terrible, terrible and horrible act, but is an act that is comitted by someone who is mentally ill. Do we fault someone for being sick?

Serial rapists and child molesters should be held in jail the rest of their natural life, but I don't think they should be executed. Let the punishment fit the crime.

With forensics, DNA, etc, it's just as solid a case for rape with them, as it is for murder cases.

It's a solid case that they had intercourse, it is not a solid case that it was forced intercourse and not consensual with someone backing out and crying rape later.

 

[Shishkabob]

Why even have EMT's, no matter which training, there? So what happens if something goes wrong with the administration of the medicine...do you think they'll transport to the hospital or perform extreme interventions? [/SIZE]

I was going to post this before to correct someone on the first page, but after seeing it AGAIn, I need to step in.





The order of death is a lawful order. A prison can't refuse to kill someone.


Once they are strapped in the chair / bed / firing post, there is no turning back.

If the first dose of the drug, electricity, or bullets from firing squad do not kill, you just do it again. You do NOT go "Oh, they lived, we have to send to the hospital now"


There are countless cases where the first dose of electricity didn't kill someone in the chair, so they would do it again and again until it DID kill.





This isn't the Salem Witch Trials--- if they live it doesn't mean they're innocent.

 

[ffemt8978]

Stay on topic please.

 

[triemal04]

The procedure state officials follow during executions states that the lethal drugs should be given by a "person qualified under Ohio law to administer medications."

Richard Rucker, the board's executive director, said the issue is not black and white.

"It depends on if they're operating as EMTs or not," he said. "EMTs are hired in hospitals and trained to do other things. It's a gray area that has to be looked at."

Only 2 quotes that really matter from the article, and the two that will determine how this goes. Depending on how Ohio law is specifically written (and which side of the bed the deciding judge got up on) anyone could be "qualified" to start an IV and push 3 separate meds, as long as they had some knowledge about it. And, as Rucker said, just because someone is an EMT does not specifically mean that they are operating as one...for this it really would fall to what their actual job description is...is it official that they are being used because they are EMT's, or was that never written into the description?

It could go either way, and either way it turns out, if the officials want these same people to continue to do it, then they'll probably be able to, unless the law is very, very specific, which I highly doubt. What this will turn out to be is an anti-execution advocate throwing a monkeywrench into the system for awhile and getting some media attention, while not really changing anything.

And for those wondering, there have been cases where a lethal injection execution went wrong; if I remember right it was 3-4 years ago and due to a nurse incorrectly inserting an IV catheter. But guess what, the guy still was executed.

 

[fortsmithman]

As for those who rape women and children don't officially execute them. Here is what you do with them. Put them in general population. You see in general population. The other inmates will most likely kill them after doing to them what they did to their victims.

 

[fortsmithman]

Personally I'm opposed to capital punishment because of 2 cases here in Canada where the person accused of murder was wrongly convicted where after decades of being in prison the real murderer was caught.