Rialto Medics refuse to enter SNF, Claiming Unspecified COVID law.

CbrMonster

Forum Lieutenant
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Bet they wouldn't refuse to go into a burning building because it's too dangerous..

At the end of the day, sometimes you have to put your big boy panties on and go to work. You signed up to take care of sick people in dangerous situations, well here it is.. earn that paycheck.

As someone earlier mentioned, you can't profess to be an godlike EMS department and then give a Busch League pedal car racing team effort..
Well that’s cause burning buildings are hero’s work!
 

CALEMT

The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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CALEMT

The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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I'm at the age now where working fires are fun for about 10 minutes (IF you manage to be 1st due). After that it's just dirty, heavy, tiring clean-up..

Regardless of what age you are it’s never fun when it’s 120 degrees outside.
 

Mufasa556

Forum Captain
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Does Rialto run dual medic ambulances? Isn’t there some 19-year-old ambulance operator they could’ve sacrificed for the cause? “Alright boys, go get ‘em.” That’s how OCFA would’ve handled it when I was at Doctor’s.
 

jgmedic

Fire Truck Driver
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They run with single function ambulance operators. I would venture to say the punishment will vary depending on if these were suppression guys or not.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Fire the paramedics... revoke their certifications... name them, shame them, and destroy their careers. idc if they are single role medics or FF/medics, they have no business being in this field. If you are going to refuse to do your job, then get the hell out of the way
 

Rano Pano

Forum Lieutenant
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Fire the paramedics... revoke their certifications... name them, shame them, and destroy their careers. idc if they are single role medics or FF/medics, they have no business being in this field. If you are going to refuse to do your job, then get the hell out of the way
Yikes, destroy their career?
My only reason for pause is I know the culture of these departments, and how a Captain can make a terrible decision for the entire engine/RA. I would hope this investigation would start with the "leadership" if applicable. Not excusing anything or punishment for the PMs just want more details why they choose to site this law 1 year and 8 months into the pandemic and if similar actions have been taken for critical calls.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Yikes, destroy their career?
My only reason for pause is I know the culture of these departments, and how a Captain can make a terrible decision for the entire engine/RA.
Yes, these two should be expelled from both public safety and healthcare, for failure to do their job. and even worse, a cop had to do their job for them!

If the investigation shows that the Captain was the one who directly told the RA crew not to enter a SNF during a cardiac arrest too, give him or her the boot too!

here is why:
1) they willfully refused to do their job.
1a) if they were that scared of covid, they could have put on tyvex suits, n95s, surgical masks, safety glasses, and helmets, and they would have been protected from all the cooties.
1b) I think that level of PPE is overkill in todays age, but that's worse case scenario, and was an option they could take.
1c) if it's a non-critical patient, and the staff can bring them outside, awesome. it can even be encouraged... a cardiac arrest is not one of those cases. go in side, and do your job to help the tax payer who is paying your salary.

2) there is no law. if anything, it might be a recommendation from someone, but no actual law. So claiming a law when no law actually exists means you don't know the rules and regulations well enough for your to do your job.

3) If the engine was there too, and the captain said they weren't going in, than he should take the blame, be expelled, etc. and they should just be suspended for failure to do their job.

4) Many of my former coworkers were going into NJ nursing homes last year when COVID was running rampant, dealing with multiple cardiac arrests a day. No vaccine, limited/reusing PPE, n95s in short supply... Now we know a lot more, have the opportunity to be vaccinated, and these two embarrassments still refused to go inside do their job on a person in cardiac arrest.

That's a cardinal sin in my book, and ending their career is appropriate.
 

ffemt8978

Forum Vice-Principal
Community Leader
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Yes, these two should be expelled from both public safety and healthcare, for failure to do their job. and even worse, a cop had to do their job for them!

If the investigation shows that the Captain was the one who directly told the RA crew not to enter a SNF during a cardiac arrest too, give him or her the boot too!

here is why:
1) they willfully refused to do their job.
1a) if they were that scared of covid, they could have put on tyvex suits, n95s, surgical masks, safety glasses, and helmets, and they would have been protected from all the cooties.
1b) I think that level of PPE is overkill in todays age, but that's worse case scenario, and was an option they could take.
1c) if it's a non-critical patient, and the staff can bring them outside, awesome. it can even be encouraged... a cardiac arrest is not one of those cases. go in side, and do your job to help the tax payer who is paying your salary.

2) there is no law. if anything, it might be a recommendation from someone, but no actual law. So claiming a law when no law actually exists means you don't know the rules and regulations well enough for your to do your job.

3) If the engine was there too, and the captain said they weren't going in, than he should take the blame, be expelled, etc. and they should just be suspended for failure to do their job.

4) Many of my former coworkers were going into NJ nursing homes last year when COVID was running rampant, dealing with multiple cardiac arrests a day. No vaccine, limited/reusing PPE, n95s in short supply... Now we know a lot more, have the opportunity to be vaccinated, and these two embarrassments still refused to go inside do their job on a person in cardiac arrest.

That's a cardinal sin in my book, and ending their career is appropriate.
We know there is no law stating as such, but what we don't know yet is if the medics were told it was a law, or if they were told it was a policy, or if they decided to claim it was a law.
 

Tigger

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We know there is no law stating as such, but what we don't know yet is if the medics were told it was a law, or if they were told it was a policy, or if they decided to claim it was a law.
But don’t you have some diligence personally to see if something is well, a law or policy?
 

FiremanMike

Just a dude
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But don’t you have some diligence personally to see if something is well, a law or policy?
Certainly in the context of FD medics, that's a rhetorical question.

I could start a rumor tomorrow that transporting BLS runs violated federal medicare laws and AT LEAST 4 people would immediately use that to start turfing people..
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
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Certainly in the context of FD medics, that's a rhetorical question.

I could start a rumor tomorrow that transporting BLS runs violated federal medicare laws and AT LEAST 4 people would immediately use that to start turfing people..
This is true, and I am an FD medic. And I did watch one of our other paramedics tell a mutual aid ambulance crew that “we don’t work covid cardiac arrests.” Rapid education occurred and I guess I don’t really know what would have happened if no one had said anything.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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I could start a rumor tomorrow that transporting BLS runs violated federal medicare laws and AT LEAST 4 people would immediately use that to start turfing people..
Sad but true... it's almost like some FFs will look for any excuse not to do EMS....

You know, if you start a rumor that OSHA was no longer allowing Firefighters to go inside, do you think you would also get no pushback?
 

FiremanMike

Just a dude
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Sad but true... it's almost like some FFs will look for any excuse not to do EMS....

You know, if you start a rumor that OSHA was no longer allowing Firefighters to go inside, do you think you would also get no pushback?
In general, people don’t fact check anything anymore. So if I gave them a reason to not do what they already don’t want to do, their desire to verify would die then and there. On top of that, when called out for it, they would definitely toss me under the bus.
 

ffemt8978

Forum Vice-Principal
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How many people actually verify everything you're told about policy changes when informed of them by supervisors?
 

CCCSD

Forum Deputy Chief
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How many people actually verify everything you're told about policy changes when informed of them by supervisors?
I ensure there’s a written SOP/MOU that goes with it. Fortunately, that’s part of introducing a new policy at my agency.
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, EMT-P, TCRN, CEN
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We know there is no law stating as such, but what we don't know yet is if the medics were told it was a law, or if they were told it was a policy, or if they decided to claim it was a law.
Having ALL of the facts, as your post alludes to, is a wonderful thing. We don't have all of them and without them, we should withold judgement. I posted what I had read on separate platforms (Police1 and Tactical ****), not what I knew or believed, and I was asked for a citation! What? I wasn't making an assertion or saying there was such a law, just what I had read. Jeez!
 
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MEDicJohn

MEDicJohn

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Having ALL of the facts, as your post alludes to, is a wonderful thing. We don't have all of them and without them, we should withold judgement. I posted what I had read on separate platforms (Police1 and Tactical ****), not what I knew or believed, and I was asked for a citation! What? I wasn't making an assertion or saying there was such a law, just what I had read. Jeez!
Mack no one is questioning you, this is an open forum. if you want to link the post that you're reading from other sites thats fine post them. The only request that was made was after you stated.

Probably some lib-Democrap local ordinance.
that you keep political opinions out of this.
 
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