Really getting discouraged...

[TransportJockey]

Well, does the person who works at McDonald's have to deal with a critically ill or injured person? Does the person who works at McDonald's have to deal with a wife who was in the passenger seat of a vehicle in which her husband was just decapitated? I worked at McDonald's from entry level into management for several years, and I can tell you that in my experience, the answer to all that is NO. I had great customer service skills dealing with people in simple situations, sure. But nothing at McDonald's prepared me for EMS.

It'd be terrible for a person to take EMT-B then immediately go into Paramedic school only to find out two years later that he or she can't stand the sight of blood and guts. If that person had gotten some experience as an EMT-B first, he or she might not have wasted two years and several thousand dollars.

EMS isn't for everyone. It's better for someone to figure that out sooner, at the basic level.

If we would have proper educational programs like nursing, then they would find out in their first set of clinicals that EMS is not for them. I know RN students that found out in their second semester when they went out for clinicals their first time that nursing is not like they thought it would be.
Oh, and none of them were required to be CNAs first...

 

[FrostbiteMedic]

I am probably going to come off a little different here, but many programs in my area do require at least a year's worth of EMS experience before allowing entry into the Paramedic program. Mind you, we do not have EMT-B in Tennessee, only EMT-IV and EMT-P (as well as CCEMT-P, but I digress). EMT-IV is pretty much an 85 standard intermediate, but we are going to the EMT-Advanced standard (they are adding new stuff....we'll see what happens there). I once had a good medic friend remind me that 95% of the stuff we do in EMS is at a Basic level, so I don't mind EMT's at least getting some real world field experience. In reply to the comment by Lifeguards, I do not use this as an excuse for not furthering my education. I start my medic in the fall, so we will see what happens from there.

 

[emsfire3924]

I have been in EMS longer. So what?

Modern day paramedicne is not about skills. It is about knowledge. Drug abusers teach themselves how to start IVs. An AED can defibrilate a patient just as easily as a medic reading a monitor.

Anyone who thinks it is skills that make a medic had missed the boat by about 25 years. With each updated curriculum the focus is more on knowledge and less on skills. Infact I reviewed a recent educational manuscript that incorperated a basic biochemistry section in it. They removed pages from skills.

Anyone planning on mastering biochemistry working as a basic EMT?



Sorry. A week is nothing to boast about.



Then I urge you to seek a more respectable center of education.

You said before that you questioned his certifications- I'm telling you that he's been in it for 18 years and who am I to question his certs with that experience. He isn't an idiot when it comes to knowing what's best for his students.


I'm pretty sure I didn't state anywhere above that it wasn't about knowledge. OF COURSE it is! But skills are important, too.


EXACTLY. A week is nothing to boast about. Thats why he suggested working a couple of years before entering medic school.

All I've heard about this medic program is good things and if you were to look around, its nothing unusual for schools to require their EMT's interested in the medic program to have patient contacts. So, how can you judge the program based on the fact that they want you to have experience so medic school isn't like being hit with a ton of bricks when you start?

 

[TransportJockey]

All I've heard about this medic program is good things and if you were to look around, its nothing unusual for schools to require their EMT's interested in the medic program to have patient contacts. So, how can you judge the program based on the fact that they want you to have experience so medic school isn't like being hit with a ton of bricks when you start?

In your area maybe. But in the four states I've looked at medic schools, I've seen maybe one that required a specified amount of time in field. Never seen one that specified pt contacts though.

 

[emsfire3924]

I am probably going to come off a little different here, but many programs in my area do require at least a year's worth of EMS experience before allowing entry into the Paramedic program. Mind you, we do not have EMT-B in Tennessee, only EMT-IV and EMT-P (as well as CCEMT-P, but I digress). EMT-IV is pretty much an 85 standard intermediate, but we are going to the EMT-Advanced standard (they are adding new stuff....we'll see what happens there). I once had a good medic friend remind me that 95% of the stuff we do in EMS is at a Basic level, so I don't mind EMT's at least getting some real world field experience. In reply to the comment by Lifeguards, I do not use this as an excuse for not furthering my education. I start my medic in the fall, so we will see what happens from there.

That was one of his main concerns. Working as an EMT, you develop that "sixth sense." Being able to pick things out when you are doing a scene size up, looking at a patient and having an idea of what is wrong with them.... This is stuff they teach you but it really clicks when you see it and experience it first hand!

 

[emsfire3924]

In your area maybe. But in the four states I've looked at medic schools, I've seen maybe one that required a specified amount of time in field. Never seen one that specified pt contacts though.

You are pretty far from me. I'm in Missouri.
This is from the schools website.

ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS
1. Be a graduate of an approved high school or
the equivalentas determined by appropriate
accrediting agencies.
2. Applicants are required to have:
a. EMT license for a period of one year or 100
documented patient contacts.
b. Must be at least 18 years of age.
c. Current certification in BLS for Health Care
Providers.

 

[TransportJockey]

You are pretty far from me. I'm in Missouri.
This is from the schools website.

ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS
1. Be a graduate of an approved high school or
the equivalentas determined by appropriate
accrediting agencies.
2. Applicants are required to have:
a. EMT license for a period of one year or 100
documented patient contacts.
b. Must be at least 18 years of age.
c. Current certification in BLS for Health Care
Providers.

I know I'm pretty far, that's why I did say your area The states I've looked at medic school in are CO, OK, TX (where I'll be attending in the spring), and NM (where I did attend medic school once already).

 

[abckidsmom]

That was one of his main concerns. Working as an EMT, you develop that "sixth sense." Being able to pick things out when you are doing a scene size up, looking at a patient and having an idea of what is wrong with them.... This is stuff they teach you but it really clicks when you see it and experience it first hand!

I would argue that you really develop that sixth sense with more knowledge and by following the lead of a good preceptor through a lot of calls. EMT-B sixth sense is a lot like "I have a feeling this is out of my league" without a real understanding of what's going on other than somebody else should be dealing with it.

Paramedic sixth sense is more like "Oh, this is going to get a little bit more complicated before we're done."

Rather than reinventing the wheel through trial and error or 100 patient contacts, if you were someone I cared about entering EMS I'd want to to enter a dedicated mentorship under someone who cares enough to put the effort out to challenge you while you waited to enter paramedic school as soon as possible. This is one of those reasons I like to volunteer. I have had all the best mentor/mentee relationships as a volunteer- but then again, all of those people were starting from 15-16 years old and had malleable enough brains that they listened to me.

 

[emsfire3924]

I would argue that you really develop that sixth sense with more knowledge and by following the lead of a good preceptor through a lot of calls. EMT-B sixth sense is a lot like "I have a feeling this is out of my league" without a real understanding of what's going on other than somebody else should be dealing with it.

Paramedic sixth sense is more like "Oh, this is going to get a little bit more complicated before we're done."

Rather than reinventing the wheel through trial and error or 100 patient contacts, if you were someone I cared about entering EMS I'd want to to enter a dedicated mentorship under someone who cares enough to put the effort out to challenge you while you waited to enter paramedic school as soon as possible. This is one of those reasons I like to volunteer. I have had all the best mentor/mentee relationships as a volunteer- but then again, all of those people were starting from 15-16 years old and had malleable enough brains that they listened to me.

Yep, so if you're working at an ALS ambulance district, you would learn and experience a lot from watching your paramedic partner.

 

[emsfire3924]

I know I'm pretty far, that's why I did say your area The states I've looked at medic school in are CO, OK, TX (where I'll be attending in the spring), and NM (where I did attend medic school once already).

Why are you having to go again?

 

[Aidey]

Yep, so if you're working at an ALS ambulance district, you would learn and experience a lot from watching your paramedic partner.

That is assuming your paramedic partner isn't a complete moron, or hates teaching. IMO it is much better to get that education in a setting where the people supervising you know what they are doing, and you are in a learning environment. You also have the benefit of actually knowing what is wrong with your patients while doing clinicals. Watching your paramedic partner doesn't get you very far if they are wrong about their diagnosis and you never know it.

 

[TransportJockey]

Why are you having to go again?

Lots of personal issues, including a failing engagement at the time, during my last internship cycle. Just couldn't get my head in the game. Took a break and since I'm moving to a different state I need to do the whole program again.

 

[emsfire3924]

That is assuming your paramedic partner isn't a complete moron, or hates teaching. IMO it is much better to get that education in a setting where the people supervising you know what they are doing, and you are in a learning environment. You also have the benefit of actually knowing what is wrong with your patients while doing clinicals. Watching your paramedic partner doesn't get you very far if they are wrong about their diagnosis and you never know it.

I am going to start next fall when its available if I am accepted. I do agree that school is a better learning enviroment but I can also see how having that hands on contact working as an EMT will help ease you into medic school.

And yes, you may have an idiot for a partner but I am talking about learning things like reading an ecg. Maybe you haven't been trained in class to do it yet but after seeing it so many times you will know what you're looking at. Then when you do learn it in class its not so confusing because you've seen stuff like that before.

 

[emsfire3924]

Lots of personal issues, including a failing engagement at the time, during my last internship cycle. Just couldn't get my head in the game. Took a break and since I'm moving to a different state I need to do the whole program again.

Oh I see. Well, hopefully we will be going through it at the same time!! Good luck to you. ^_^

 

[Aidey]

I am going to start next fall when its available if I am accepted. I do agree that school is a better learning enviroment but I can also see how having that hands on contact working as an EMT will help ease you into medic school.

And yes, you may have an idiot for a partner but I am talking about learning things like reading an ecg. Maybe you haven't been trained in class to do it yet but after seeing it so many times you will know what you're looking at. Then when you do learn it in class its not so confusing because you've seen stuff like that before.

If your partner is an idiot, or isn't into teaching seeing EKGs isn't going to help you when it comes to medic school. If you want to get familiar with stuff like that get a good 3 lead work book, or a patient assessment text. Don't depend on your job to teach you anything.

 

[DrParasite]

even put somebody on a backboard. (a skill which is given more time in lifeguarding class than EM class)

considering lifeguards teach people to put a person on a backboard and CID without applying a collar (and that's per the american red cross training btw) you might not want to use them to support your cause.

 

[Aidey]

considering lifeguards teach people to put a person on a backboard and CID without applying a collar (and that's per the american red cross training btw) you might not want to use them to support your cause.

That may be because it doesn't change patient outcome at all.

 

[JJR512]

I've been a member here at EMTLife.com longer than anyone else who has posted in this thread so far. Almost five years, in fact.

Why am I bringing this up? Because way back in my early days (in March 2006, in fact—also before anyone in this thread joined up), I asked if I should go right from my EMT-B class into a Paramedic program, or if I should get some experience first as a BLS provider.

Interestingly, the responses back then were very much in favor of getting BLS experience first. How times have changed...

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=2480

 

[Aidey]

*gasp*

You mean maybe people have learned something and common opinion has changed? What a concept.

/shock
//horror

 

[JJR512]

*gasp*

You mean maybe people have learned something and common opinion has changed? What a concept.

/shock
//horror

Yes, and if you stick your fingers into a bag of M&Ms and pull out three, and all three are brown, then obviously the bag is filled with nothing but brown M&Ms.

Who learned anything? All those of you who have have sided against experience are a completely different group of people. You can't say they learned anything (and frankly I think it's arrogant that you feel that just because their opinion isn't aligned to yours, they need to learn something) unless you can get each and every one of them to post here and now that they've since realized that what they said back then was wrong. And you can't tell me that you've learned anything because you've probably always felt the way you do, at least since you first formed an opinion about it.

There are over six billion people on this planet, and if you think that what works best for you is also what's best for everyone else, then again that word arrogant is going to come into play.