Real learning vs spoon feeding

Doczilla said:
Yeah, that's an issue, but in a vacuum (aside from toxic leadership) growing as a provider should be motivation enough.
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Is it?

You said it yourself. You went all badass-hooah, but in your current personal work life, what has that accomplishment gotten you in comparison to a generic bog-standard provider who simply practices passable Comfortable Medicine?

Learning and overcoming real challenges is great....for people like you and I. Most people aren't like that.
 
RocketMedic said:
And from the perspective of a student and a paramedic....often we fall into the trap of assuming that all students, members of a cohort, educational products, etc. Are equal and similar in their motivation, effort and yield of their work. We see it here with the Millenial-bashing. As educators, we need to remember that everyone does bring individual approaches to our classes and we need to keep our classes on-target for the roles we are training for. This is often mistaken for spoon-feeding.
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I never said all, I said most. I don't group anyone into any category unless their lack of effort places them there. Bottom line is things are different now then when I grew through the ranks of the fire and ems service and MOST kids now a days don't have the level of passion, drive, motivation, respect, etc my friends and I possessed back then. Call it whatever you want, I am not bashing, but I am not afraid to call a spade a spade. Yet another problem with this day and age, but that's another discussion all together.
 
I love the "kids these days" lines I hear. o_O
 
StCEMT said:
I love the "kids these days" lines I hear. o_O
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Well what do you call it then? Just in talking with co-workers amongst two different fields I am not alone in these opinions, so what is your take?

We are trending towards a time where people are afraid to say the things that sometimes need to be said. Kids are being given even amount of Easter eggs during hunts so not to upset other kids. "Everyone is a winner" and frankly that's just BS and not how real life works. People who work hard, stand out from the rest, and take initiative to learn independently when needed or to improve their craft get regonition in my book. Those are the people I want to work along side of.
 
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I call it there are useless ****s who are a waste of oxygen among all age groups and always has been. I know you said most and not all, but I know a lot of people my age who are highly motivated and incredibly smart and I doubt people complaining about the younger generation is new. I'd guess this has happened time and time again. Oh and I'd call it a problem partially (still believe in personal responsibility) of an older generation, we didn't raise ourselves after all.

Mostly I just find it an irksome generalization that is thrown around easily. I'd challenge anyone to look at how much work I put into what I do and say I don't have the same drive, respect, or motivation. Same goes for many friends of mine.
 
I just said in my previous post that if you're not one of those people who lacks drive, respect, and motivation then you get recognition in my book... What did u miss about that? Call me old school but respect isn't given just because you pass a class or a cert. It's earned, and you don't have to been some young gun to earn respect from me. I highly respect some of the people I precept at work who are 10+ years younger than I am, and admire their drive and motivation to never stop educating themselves, however those are the caliber of people we hire, and coming from a fire background I can tell you things have changed... Don't quite understand why you get irk'ed if you're not one of those people...?
 
I used to get really pissed about the "generation generalizing." Then I remembered that every generation has an issue with its successors and that's just a gripe as old as time.

Never mind that it's a silly argument, how do we think generations learn behaviors and habits? From their predecessors.

Changes in education beget changes in expectations. It is not an unreasonable thing to ask why it is worth investing the time to truly educate oneself. I want to know if what I am doing is worth it for me to reach my goal. If that makes me an entitled and spoiled millennial then I guess I'll just live with that.
 
Its not your premise of those who lack an amount of drive earn their reputation, I agree with you 110%. It's that people believe it is a new thing among younger people these days when it's not. I have a step uncle in law or whatever the hell he is who has a nice criminal record an has stolen from his own family repeatedly. He is in his 30's or 40's at this point in life. It's not new, it's just a silly line that gets repeated that I have to try really hard to not roll my eyes at when I hear it.
 
Kids these days have been confused by so many "new" ways of learning, "no child left behind (or a dime)", etc that they have great difficulty in actually learning things.
 
StCEMT said:
I love the "kids these days" lines I hear. o_O
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I try not to say this too much because I agree that it's a tired and overused sentiment, and it makes me sound even older and crabbier than I actually am.

However, since someone else brought it up, I would point out that there have been lots of really dramatic changes in society and education and entertainment over the past 20 years or so that are bound to have a big effect on the attitudes and expectations of the kids who've grown up in that time frame......and most certainly not in a way that makes them hardier or more self reliant. We could expound on what specific changes those are, but just just to keep it general, I can say very confidently that nearly every aspect of life for my kids is easier and safer and more accessible than it was for me at their ages, and that society goes to much greater lengths to keep them insulated from offense and disappointment and even challenge. And while that's not a bad thing in many or even most ways, it does come - like everything does - with some unintended consequences, and some of those consequences are pretty obvious to those of us who've actually watched those changes happen. Let's just say that there's good reason why the very concept of "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings" and being perpetually offended could simply never have existed in history until very recently, and good reasons why the military is having a much harder time than ever before finding recruits who are both physically and mentally qualified for service, and why even good paying jobs in the trade industries (welding, etc.) and REALLY good paying jobs in engineering go unfilled at the same time that unemployment among young adults is at near record highs. They are the same reasons why record numbers of young adults live at home with their parent, blaming the economy for the fact that they can't afford to make it on their own even though so many of them still find a way to afford smartphones and $2500 MacBook Pros and iPads and drive late model cars and spend a larger percentage of their income than ever before on restaurants and entertainment. Quite a bit has been written on this stuff by sociologists and psychologists.

I'm sure folks in their early 20's get tired of hearing how lazy their generation is, and it's true that every generation says that about the one that follows it. But, for better or worse, lifestyles and expectations really are very different for someone who has turned 20 over the past few years now than it was for someone who reached that age 15 or more years ago.
 
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As long as we're tossing generalities out, I'll toss in an absolute. It's not the Millenials driving those changes...
 
I don't doubt one bit that we have a lot of things easier, I mean Google helps make my life so much simpler when I want to find information on something. It's just always one of those things that will get a bit of an eye roll from me, because I didn't create these changes, I just live with them. I wish I did though, Lord knows I could live a comfortable life in the mountains if I created any of this technology stuff. ;) It's the folks before me I have to thank for the changes though. One of those little details that I think gets forgotten easily when I am busy softening this country up with my youthfulness. But in the end, it is kind of like being called an ambulance driver. I will still carry on about my business because I don't care enough to do much more than mock it. But I am dang sure gonna poke at it every time I hear mention of it. :D
 
I'm just going to throw it here in support of what Remi said:

 
Let's make sure we're staying on topic and not complaining about the youth of the world....

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RocketMedic said:
As long as we're tossing generalities out, I'll toss in an absolute. It's not the Millenials driving those changes...
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This is a very good point. It is my generation that seems to think things in education need to change and that everyone has equal ability. Let's face it, not everyone is an honors student and not everyone has the ability to strip a car engine with one hand and blindfolded. Back in my day (yeah, I said it, lol) as you moved on higher in the grades we were separated based on ability. We had honors classes, standard classes and modified classes. They were taught to the ability of the students in the class. The kids who could excel in academic classes weren't held back by those who couldn't and those who couldn't weren't expected to keep up with those that could excel. College isn't for everyone, despite what is being told to everyone in high school now. Classes like shop and other real world skill classes should be brought back.
 
ERDoc said:
This is a very good point. It is my generation that seems to think things in education need to change and that everyone has equal ability. Let's face it, not everyone is an honors student and not everyone has the ability to strip a car engine with one hand and blindfolded. Back in my day (yeah, I said it, lol) as you moved on higher in the grades we were separated based on ability. We had honors classes, standard classes and modified classes. They were taught to the ability of the students in the class. The kids who could excel in academic classes weren't held back by those who couldn't and those who couldn't weren't expected to keep up with those that could excel. College isn't for everyone, despite what is being told to everyone in high school now. Classes like shop and other real world skill classes should be brought back.
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I agree that shop classes or really anything that is more similar to real world work, should be brought back. They could do internships, explorers whatever the heck. But I think an issue for me was that I had no experience with how blunt work was in real life. You come and you work, take initiative and get stuff done. Know how to apply your knowledge. Its real odd when you don't know that. Thankfully I caught on quick ( least I believe, others may still curse my name). However, youth may often grow without comprehension of real world skills and the way jobs actually work, as far as responsibility and initiative.
 
In Europe there is a split between precollegiate and vocational tracks and schools
 
ERDoc said:
College isn't for everyone, despite what is being told to everyone in high school now. Classes like shop and other real world skill classes should be brought back.
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This. So many times, this.
 
Gold star if you tell me who said "Someone's got to cook the french fries..."

A true statement if there ever was one.
 
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