medic417
The Truth Provider
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LOL. True though.
Question on "Abandonment"
- Thread starter trevor1189
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LOL. True though.
Sasha
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Pass the popcorn, Miss Epi!
Aidey
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Is anything ever NOT the paramedics fault on this forum?
Over and over again there are threads discussing the issues that arise between those in EMS and the people we encounter. And every single bloody time the exact same people get on their high horses and pin the blame firmly on the paramedics. Doctors, Nurses, Police Officers, Security Guards etc are NEVER wrong, NEVER have attitudes, NEVER treat anyone badly, NEVER make judgments, and are NEVER difficult to work with. It's ALWAYS the paramedics fault.
I have never seen people so negative towards their own profession as I have seen several of the paramedics here be. Unless they are talking about themselves of course, because they are perfect. Its utterly despicable, and frankly ridiculous. I'm sick of seeing people try and justify their bitterness and negativity towards their peers by saying they are just telling the truth, and trying to "educate" people. Bollocks. These attitudes are simply not needed, here or anywhere else.
Over and over again there are threads discussing the issues that arise between those in EMS and the people we encounter. And every single bloody time the exact same people get on their high horses and pin the blame firmly on the paramedics. Doctors, Nurses, Police Officers, Security Guards etc are NEVER wrong, NEVER have attitudes, NEVER treat anyone badly, NEVER make judgments, and are NEVER difficult to work with. It's ALWAYS the paramedics fault.
I have never seen people so negative towards their own profession as I have seen several of the paramedics here be. Unless they are talking about themselves of course, because they are perfect. Its utterly despicable, and frankly ridiculous. I'm sick of seeing people try and justify their bitterness and negativity towards their peers by saying they are just telling the truth, and trying to "educate" people. Bollocks. These attitudes are simply not needed, here or anywhere else.
reaper
Working Bum
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We don't need to know you or work with you, to figure it out. Every time you make a post and someone challenges you, you take offense. Rather then try and debate your case or learn something new, you take it personally.
I am sure that we can find plenty of providers from NE PA that do not agree with your statements. If you learn to debate an issue correctly, then you can get things done. You won't have to fear losing your job for blowing your cool.
Another hint, The only EMT's I ever see pull the paragod card on every medic they meet, are the ones that think they know it all and do not want to learn something the correct way. You will never last in EMS with that attitude. Do yourself a favor, step back, take a deep breath and try to come out on a fresh note!
I am sure that we can find plenty of providers from NE PA that do not agree with your statements. If you learn to debate an issue correctly, then you can get things done. You won't have to fear losing your job for blowing your cool.
Another hint, The only EMT's I ever see pull the paragod card on every medic they meet, are the ones that think they know it all and do not want to learn something the correct way. You will never last in EMS with that attitude. Do yourself a favor, step back, take a deep breath and try to come out on a fresh note!
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
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Just because a paramedic does something a certain way doesn't make it the "correct way" either though Reaper. Plenty of paramedics have earned the "paragod" moniker by acting like there way is the best way and the only way and anyone who doesn't do it that way is an idiot.
Aidey-
I don't disagree that what you're talking about doesn't happen quite a bit here, or that it's not always appropriate (though sometimes it is) and that it's not infuriating. But of all the threads, it really hasn't been much of an issue in this as it has elsewhere. In a nutshell, here someone made a statement that needs clarification and justification...and was unable to provide that. As well, given what the initial statement was, the questions about education/training, QA/QI, mistakes, etc, really had to be asked. It has nothing to do with beating up on EMS or paramedics, it was just something that needed to be answered if EMTinNEPA was going be able to make an accurate arguement.
I don't disagree that what you're talking about doesn't happen quite a bit here, or that it's not always appropriate (though sometimes it is) and that it's not infuriating. But of all the threads, it really hasn't been much of an issue in this as it has elsewhere. In a nutshell, here someone made a statement that needs clarification and justification...and was unable to provide that. As well, given what the initial statement was, the questions about education/training, QA/QI, mistakes, etc, really had to be asked. It has nothing to do with beating up on EMS or paramedics, it was just something that needed to be answered if EMTinNEPA was going be able to make an accurate arguement.
reaper
Working Bum
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And in 20 years, I have seen very few actual "Paragods". It comes out as stated above!
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
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I don't think we are the best at judging if we are acting like paragods or not. I think that is something that is better assessed by the people we work with on a regular basis.
Triemal - My issue lies not just with the questioning, but the manner it was done it, and the extent. While the question may have "needed" to be asked, the manner it was done in was very accusatory and made it sound like the poster was just a screw up that caused all the problems himself.
Believe it or not there are places that don't have very good medical directors. Didn't someone just post an article about having Pre hospital EMS recognized as a sub-specialty for doctors to allow better training for those that are medical directors?
Heck, I worked for an agency that had a family practice doc as a medical director because all the ED docs were already a medical director for another agency, or they didn't want to take on the responsibility. It had been something like 25 years since she worked in an ED, and we definitely had our differences with her because she just didn't understand why we needed to do somethings. Luckily she wasn't rash, and didn't remove any of our orders, but it was a hard battle to keep them all.
Triemal - My issue lies not just with the questioning, but the manner it was done it, and the extent. While the question may have "needed" to be asked, the manner it was done in was very accusatory and made it sound like the poster was just a screw up that caused all the problems himself.
Believe it or not there are places that don't have very good medical directors. Didn't someone just post an article about having Pre hospital EMS recognized as a sub-specialty for doctors to allow better training for those that are medical directors?
Heck, I worked for an agency that had a family practice doc as a medical director because all the ED docs were already a medical director for another agency, or they didn't want to take on the responsibility. It had been something like 25 years since she worked in an ED, and we definitely had our differences with her because she just didn't understand why we needed to do somethings. Luckily she wasn't rash, and didn't remove any of our orders, but it was a hard battle to keep them all.
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
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My agency still carries it.
Aidey-
If that's how it came across then that was, on my part, accidental. But it still needed to be done, even though you're right, there are plenty of crappy medical directors, and doctors in general out there. Hell, I think in almost all of my initial posts in this thread I mentioned that EMTinNEPA might not be wrong; getting stuck with a poor doctor can definetly happen. But, for him to show that he was right, he would have needed to show that his service was up to par and it was just the doc being a jackass. Which he couldn't do.
I have no problem with blaming someone else for a problem, as long as it's appropriate to do that; just need to be sure that it is. The same goes for our own profession though; when we are at fault then we need to take responsibility for that, not try and pawn it off on someone else. But you are right though, ignoring the faults of other professions to make a point is ridiculous.
Edit: I still carry charcoal...almost all services around here do. There's been 1 study done that didn't show much need for it I think, but anecdotally I'm glad we have it.
If that's how it came across then that was, on my part, accidental. But it still needed to be done, even though you're right, there are plenty of crappy medical directors, and doctors in general out there. Hell, I think in almost all of my initial posts in this thread I mentioned that EMTinNEPA might not be wrong; getting stuck with a poor doctor can definetly happen. But, for him to show that he was right, he would have needed to show that his service was up to par and it was just the doc being a jackass. Which he couldn't do.
I have no problem with blaming someone else for a problem, as long as it's appropriate to do that; just need to be sure that it is. The same goes for our own profession though; when we are at fault then we need to take responsibility for that, not try and pawn it off on someone else. But you are right though, ignoring the faults of other professions to make a point is ridiculous.
Edit: I still carry charcoal...almost all services around here do. There's been 1 study done that didn't show much need for it I think, but anecdotally I'm glad we have it.
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EMTinNEPA
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Triemel04, I'm done with this thread, and I'm done with you. Yes, there are places that have terrible medical directors. My region happens to be one of them. I don't care about trying to enact change because last time I did that, I got fired from my main department. You came in to this thread simply to cause trouble and to anger me. I'm having a terrible day, and I know when to back off, so I'm done talking to you before I say something that I'm going to regret later.
What do you want me to do to show that my service is up to par? Cite the fact that over 80% of our medics have IV success rates of at least 90%? Want me to go find the cardiac arrest successful resuscitated percentage? Want me to give you the charts our service types up so you can see the treatments and the success rates yourself? I can't do the last one. You want me to take a camera along with me and tape every call so you can see us in action? Can't do that either. You're asking me to do something I can't.
Enjoy knowing everything. Please, share your knowledge with the simpletons like myself. Gods knows we need it, since we are incompetent boobs who know nothing and we couldn't possibly have a bad medical director.
*This is me washing my hands of this thread*
What do you want me to do to show that my service is up to par? Cite the fact that over 80% of our medics have IV success rates of at least 90%? Want me to go find the cardiac arrest successful resuscitated percentage? Want me to give you the charts our service types up so you can see the treatments and the success rates yourself? I can't do the last one. You want me to take a camera along with me and tape every call so you can see us in action? Can't do that either. You're asking me to do something I can't.
Enjoy knowing everything. Please, share your knowledge with the simpletons like myself. Gods knows we need it, since we are incompetent boobs who know nothing and we couldn't possibly have a bad medical director.
*This is me washing my hands of this thread*
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Geez, at least spell my name right!
In all honesty, and I don't mean this as a jab at you personally, do you really think getting fired is what caused this attitude you have, or have you ever considered that there might have been a reason behind you getting fired in the first place? With the attitude that you have here when asked some simple questions to show that you are right...can't blame anyone for what they did. And if your attitude is prevalent in your service...can't blame a medical director for being wary of letting you do anything.
Stop complaining and feeling sorry for yourself...go back and read all the questions. Do you have a lousy medical director? I, and everyone else here, can't answer that because you refuse to provide the info needed to make that judgment without having any first hand knowledge of the situation. If you want to be considered a professional, then you need to act like one. I'm not trying to make any personal attacks on you, you just need to realize that when you make a statement like you have, it had better be a valid one.
I am curious though; do you plan on making this your career? Based on your responses here, I really hope you don't; the "I don't care" attitude and refusal to consider why something is happening and what can be done to change that is, as I alluded earlier, a huge cause of the problems EMS has today. More people like that is not what we need.
Edit: Ah, I see you haven't washed your hands of this thread yet. IV success rates mean nothing. Cardiac arrest saves are good, but not always the best indicator of how proficient a service is (and remember, a true save is them leaving the hospital, though I'll count field ROSC as long as they arrive at a hospital with a pulse). Charts? Heh...I can find someone who's never been in EMS, give them the info from a call and they'll type a great chart...of course that person is a writing instructor. What I'd like to know to really give a good judgement on the situation is what I asked earlier: tell me about your QA/QI program. What initial training do your newly-hired medics go through? How are they cleared to work on their own? What about continuing training/education? What is the initial training and education like for paramedics in PA? Have there been problems with medics making mistakes with their diagnosis and treatements? How involved is the medical director? Does he teach any classes? Interact with the personell? More info is needed.
Double edit: You do remember I hope, that earlier you admitted that you didn't know why something had happened (combitubes not being allowed in the basic scope) but just assumed that doctors were to blame. Think that might be what's happening now?
In all honesty, and I don't mean this as a jab at you personally, do you really think getting fired is what caused this attitude you have, or have you ever considered that there might have been a reason behind you getting fired in the first place? With the attitude that you have here when asked some simple questions to show that you are right...can't blame anyone for what they did. And if your attitude is prevalent in your service...can't blame a medical director for being wary of letting you do anything.
Stop complaining and feeling sorry for yourself...go back and read all the questions. Do you have a lousy medical director? I, and everyone else here, can't answer that because you refuse to provide the info needed to make that judgment without having any first hand knowledge of the situation. If you want to be considered a professional, then you need to act like one. I'm not trying to make any personal attacks on you, you just need to realize that when you make a statement like you have, it had better be a valid one.
I am curious though; do you plan on making this your career? Based on your responses here, I really hope you don't; the "I don't care" attitude and refusal to consider why something is happening and what can be done to change that is, as I alluded earlier, a huge cause of the problems EMS has today. More people like that is not what we need.
Edit: Ah, I see you haven't washed your hands of this thread yet. IV success rates mean nothing. Cardiac arrest saves are good, but not always the best indicator of how proficient a service is (and remember, a true save is them leaving the hospital, though I'll count field ROSC as long as they arrive at a hospital with a pulse). Charts? Heh...I can find someone who's never been in EMS, give them the info from a call and they'll type a great chart...of course that person is a writing instructor. What I'd like to know to really give a good judgement on the situation is what I asked earlier: tell me about your QA/QI program. What initial training do your newly-hired medics go through? How are they cleared to work on their own? What about continuing training/education? What is the initial training and education like for paramedics in PA? Have there been problems with medics making mistakes with their diagnosis and treatements? How involved is the medical director? Does he teach any classes? Interact with the personell? More info is needed.
Double edit: You do remember I hope, that earlier you admitted that you didn't know why something had happened (combitubes not being allowed in the basic scope) but just assumed that doctors were to blame. Think that might be what's happening now?
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EMTinNEPA
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I was a wide-eyed idealist who wanted to save EMS from the monster it had become, and because of this, I was fired, because I challenged the way "they" have done things for 40 years and they didn't like that too much.
Did me getting fired cause this attitude? Yes it did. Because I realized I was nobody, I was expendable, and my paycheck was more important than trying to throw weight around that I didn't have. So now I just don't care. Doesn't matter to me, I still have food on my table. As long as my patients live/get better/etc. and the money keeps coming in, I don't care what the politicians do.
Seriously, I'm dropping it. I've had a terrible day and I'm about to fly off the handle. You drilled me on an off-the-cuff, half-tongue-in-cheek remark, being condescending and mocking. I'm done with you, and I'm done trying to improve EMS. Would I like to see improvements? Yes I would. But food in my stomach is more important.
Dear god dude...condescending and mocking? Drilled you? Really? I'm not sure if I should say thanks or be offended. It's to bad you're having a bad day, but you did say what you did...this is the result of that. Live with it. Like I said, if you want to be considered a professional at this, then you need to act like one. If you are right about all this...show me...like I've said all along, you very well may be, I just can't tell without knowing more.
On a more serious note though, has it ever occured to you how detrimental your attitude of not caring and not looking for reasons why is? Put aside everything else, and that still matters. You think EMS is screwy now? Allow attitudes like that to prevail, wait another 5-10 years and then check back in on it...gonna be oh so much worse than anything you see now. This has nothing to do with politicians...I could give a crap about them. It has to do with what WE do for OURSELVES. That's how problems will get solved...not caring and waiting for someone else to fix it is what got us into this mess.
Hockey
Quackers
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Hey Trie
How about chilling out a few notches
Why does every thread anymore seem to get into a urinating match between everyone?
How about chilling out a few notches
Why does every thread anymore seem to get into a urinating match between everyone?
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Me? Why? Please read the whole thread and explain.
Hockey
Quackers
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He's dropping it, just ignore him if you don't like it. Just going back and forth with some of the members is a losing battle
You can click "Ignore Member" too
It's always a losing battle. (don't worry, I'm including myself in that category too). But, it's not just the people involved that read the thread, and, hopefully, not just the people involved that can take something away from it. That's what keeps it going.He's dropping it, just ignore him if you don't like it. Just going back and forth with some of the members is a losing battle
You can click "Ignore Member" too
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Wonder how much longer before admin is along to put a stop to this one????
Soon as the first mod logs on...could still have quite a bit of fun before that happens, so don't go to far.
We have two winners!!!! Sorry about the delay...some of us work for a living.
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