Lifeguards For Life
Forum Deputy Chief
- 1,448
- 6
- 0
Proper BVM technique
- Thread starter JJR512
- Start date
OP
OP
JJR512
Forum Deputy Chief
- 1,336
- 4
- 36
I didn't dismiss anything you had to say. You essentially had three things to say:
- Aim for 12.
- However, how you count is of utmost importance and you should not dismiss methodology.
- When discussing ventilation you can not ignore the fact that people hyperventilate patients, and it is a serious problem that can have a negative affect on patient outcomes.
My reply was, "Thanks, the number of bpm to aim for is what I was looking for." This was a response to your first point. "I am aware of avoiding hyperventilation." This was a response to your third point. "What I was worried about—indeed, it's the very purpose of this thread—was hypoventilation, which it seems is what will happen if we count a full five seconds between each breath. So it seems that if I count using abckidsmom's method, I'll be fine." This was a response to your second point. Abckidsmom has a methodology (your second point) that she uses to get 12 bpm, which you said is the goal (your first point), and if your "aim for" number is correct and that goal is achieved (without being exceeded), then your third point becomes a non-problem.
If 12 is the number to aim for, and a methodology is used to achieve exactly that, and further assuming that I don't squeeze the bag too hard, then the patient shouldn't be hyperventilated. Out of everything you just wrote, is there anything that changes your "aim for 12" statement? It's just that it seems like you and Veneficus keep trying to get me to understand I shouldn't hyperventilate the patient. I don't know how to make it any clearer than stating it directly—which I've already done—that I comprehend that I should not hyperventilate the patient. All I need to know is how many breaths per minute. If 12 breaths per minute, or one breath out of every five seconds (which is not the same as one breath, then wait five seconds), is going to hyperventilate the patient, then 12 bpm is not the number to aim for. But since you said it was, and since that's the number the instructor said, and since that's the number the book says, then I have to assume that 12 is the correct number to aim for. But if 12 is the correct number, I'm still left confused about why they're teaching a method that only gives about 8-8.5 bpm. I'm confused about why they're teaching a method that gives 8-8.5 on the one hand, while saying that 12 is the desired number on the other hand. If it's just because it's better to hypoventilate than hyperventilate, and they're assuming that if they teach us how to do it at 8-8.5 we'll get excited and screw it up and do it fast and actually achieve the 12 bpm by accident, then fine, that's the reason. Is that the reason? I'm only trying to understand it in simple terms.
OP
OP
JJR512
Forum Deputy Chief
- 1,336
- 4
- 36
Is it really possible to find what I was talking about—a complete college-level course in General Biology, Anatomy & Physiology, and the entire post-EMT-B Paramedic course, all for free, through Google? Such that I could go to my local community college and challenge the written final exams for each of those courses and pass after having just read these free classes on the internet?
If so, please provide the link yourself.
If not, please stop being a **** and just go away.
JPINFV
Gadfly
- 12,681
- 197
- 63
No, however it is simple to confirm that oxygen is rather toxic and causes the formation of free radicals, free radicals are majorly bad juju for cells, especially damaged cells, and damaged cells initiate apoptosis, which is lead by the mitochondria. There's no need to understand all of the minutia to get that and I'm willing to bet most practicing physicians have forgotten most of the minutia, but understand that free radicals bad, cell damage leads to apoptosis.
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
- 4,800
- 11
- 38
I really shouldn't admit this around these parts but I have never taken A&P, any Biology class, and the last time I took chemistry was 10 years ago and I think I got a D. I was a journalism major before I got into the paramedic program. You do not need to have a huge science background to understand this stuff.
If you look up the individual words you don't understand, you will learn something without having a take a whole semester long course. How do you think I managed it?
Last edited by a moderator:
Lifeguards For Life
Forum Deputy Chief
- 1,448
- 6
- 0
Don't take it too personal. I'm an equal opportunity offender, you just present more opportunities than any other forum member on this site.
No complete course is necessary to understand the material in question. Though yes, if you had spent a significant amount of time studying the material online, through various sites, you could CLEP out of almost any college course.
I provided you with a link. Type in anything you wish to learn about and you will be provided with more sources than you could possibly read through. That is the beauty of a search engine. Of course some here will tell you to use an academic search engine, but at this level google will suffice.
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP
JJR512
Forum Deputy Chief
- 1,336
- 4
- 36
One paramedic program near me required, if I remember correctly, either A&P-1 and A&P-2, or a single class called "Structure and Function of the Human Body". That was a few years ago when I looked at it, and I could be mistaken. The paramedic program I'm looking at now, though, includes a class (it's the EMSP-160 on this page) that has A&P-1 and A&P-2 (BIOL-203 and -204) as prerequisites, and General Biology 1 (or Fundamentals of Microbiology optionally, as discussed in another thread here recently) is a prerequisite for A&P-1.
The thing is, though, that I may not understand those things now, and I could probably get a basic-enough understanding of the concepts with some research, which I'm sure is what Lifeguards For Life was probably going for. And maybe there's a way to get through a paramedic program without having taken all that, as apparently you did. But I don't want to. I want to really understand it all. I'd rather know more, not less.
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
- 4,800
- 11
- 38
We had a built in A&P class as part of our entire course, but I don't really count that since I didn't get credit for an A&P class. Even without all of those classes I somehow have managed to understand everything Vene said. I have the respect of my co-workers, medical director and numerous other ER doctors and nurses I work with. I'm not too fussed that I don't have those classes since formal education =/= knowledge.
And yes that is what Lifeguard and myself are saying. Learning it now isn't going to hurt you, and it may even help.
And yes that is what Lifeguard and myself are saying. Learning it now isn't going to hurt you, and it may even help.
To add, I believe that CPR will only provide an EF (ejection fraction) of maybe 15%, in the best of conditions. I believe that a healthy heart has an EF of 65-70%. I've heard some rumors that the AHA may even go to a NRB w/ Cx compressions, since you'll get passive air exchange just from the compressions alone.