Private EMS second class?

[46Young]

I agree with you to a point but I think you are missing MY point. Firefighting is not EASY and is a profession, just as paramedicine is. The problem exists when a fire medic has to do BOTH. Most Fire Medics do not work at a fire department and sit on a ALS rig and run ems calls. They are called FIRE Medics for a reason, they run fire calls too. That means they have to train for fire emergencies with their fire crew as well as keep up on their Paramedic training. EMS crews that work for private ambulance companies are not tasked with the 'dual' training. Being an expert and staying on top of new technolgies, techniques, and skills for both firefighting and paramedicine is a incredible challenge. Some do it(and do it well) but that is the exception not the rule. The bottom line is the person that practices and devotes themself to one discipline is almost always going to be better at it than someone that has to split their time between two equally challenging professions. Your fire medic's heart my be in the right place but that doesn't mean their skill level or clinical judgement is gonna be. Just the way it is........

A paramedic curriculum is two years at best if done through a university, or around a year or so if you cut out the gen-eds. My fire academy was 23 forty hour weeks. That's 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 years of education and training. The didactic material in the fire academy wasn't that challenging. Important and relevant, but not challenging. The same goes for the psychomotor skills. So, the education and training that is needed to be released as a FF/medic falls well short of the education and training necessary for a Bachelor's degree. A good FD will have in-station EMS and suppression drills, as well as out of service multi unit drills/CEU's. That still leaves all of your time off duty to take additional fire or EMS training opportunities.

 

[RocketMedic]

46, many private companies are better than the county services out this way, or on-par with them. Then again, many are not.

 

[46Young]

46, many private companies are better than the county services out this way, or on-par with them. Then again, many are not.

What does the typical enmployee salary/benefits/retirement package look like out your way?

For example, in Charleston SC back in 2008 when I worked for them, medics worked either 48 hr or 56 hr schedules. Starting pay was around $38k/yr, up to 68k max in 11 years. 28 and out pension @ 1.8% (just under 50% of salary) and a three year TERI (known as DROP elsewhere). Typical 12 days leave, six days of sick leave, etc.

Fairfax VA has a 56 hour workweek. Medics start out at 54k/yr after the academy and ALS internship, plus cert pay of 5k/yr, riding pay of $2/hr on the engine as a medic, and $3/hr on a txp unit (average 7k/yr give or take $1k). FLSA and night diff count for another $4k/yr. It's about $70k/yr. 25 and out pension @ 2.8%, and a three year DROP. Medical insurance is portable, but the county does not pay 75% of the premium after retirement - you pay 100%. Right now I accrue approx. 6 hours/PP for sick, and 10.5 hrs/PP for annual leave.

In NYC, my hospital had a 40 hr workweek, which they paid 37.5, and OT if no meal breaks. Around $30/hr for medics, 403b, vested in 5 years. FDNY's info is on their site.

Edit: Seriously, if you could give me an approximation, I could pass that on to all the EMT's and medics in my area that don't want to do fire. They've asked me on numerous occasions where to go to do EMS with good pay and bebefits.

 

[jgw1981]

In the Detroit area, for the private companies, a Paramedic will start $11 - $13 an hour most medics averaging around $35k with overtime. Lots make less, some make more, but they work crazy hours. Full time will get you benifits, typically with high co-pays and doesn't cover much (just ask anyone who has the insurance, and it doesn't matter the company). Most privates do a fair amount of IFT in addition to rescue contracts and municipal back up calls. More and more municipalities are losing ALS transport due to FD funds being cut back, and staffing being below what could support that duty. Those fire departments that are hiring start someone at about $38k base with benifits that are superior in most cases to the private ambulance companies. Most of those fire departments that are hiring are in wealthier areas like Oakland county (although the city of Hamtramck appears to be hiring, but I believe they are a BLS department). Those areas have reasonably low call volumes compared to the more urban areas. Also to speak of money, in the urban areas, there are more patients that are on medicare / medicaid, which pays but not neccesarily the amount billed. Wheras in suburban areas, there are more people with insurance through employers which does pay better. That being said.....rescue isn't where ambulance companies make their money, at least not here. Transporting ALS costs more than it makes in far too many cases. The money is made by taking those people out and doing the IFT runs. Its said at many companies that the BLS makes the money, ALS just gets the glory.

 

[RocketMedic]

What does the typical enmployee salary/benefits/retirement package look like out your way?

For example, in Charleston SC back in 2008 when I worked for them, medics worked either 48 hr or 56 hr schedules. Starting pay was around $38k/yr, up to 68k max in 11 years. 28 and out pension @ 1.8% (just under 50% of salary) and a three year TERI (known as DROP elsewhere). Typical 12 days leave, six days of sick leave, etc.

Fairfax VA has a 56 hour workweek. Medics start out at 54k/yr after the academy and ALS internship, plus cert pay of 5k/yr, riding pay of $2/hr on the engine as a medic, and $3/hr on a txp unit (average 7k/yr give or take $1k). FLSA and night diff count for another $4k/yr. It's about $70k/yr. 25 and out pension @ 2.8%, and a three year DROP. Medical insurance is portable, but the county does not pay 75% of the premium after retirement - you pay 100%. Right now I accrue approx. 6 hours/PP for sick, and 10.5 hrs/PP for annual leave.

In NYC, my hospital had a 40 hr workweek, which they paid 37.5, and OT if no meal breaks. Around $30/hr for medics, 403b, vested in 5 years. FDNY's info is on their site.

Edit: Seriously, if you could give me an approximation, I could pass that on to all the EMT's and medics in my area that don't want to do fire. They've asked me on numerous occasions where to go to do EMS with good pay and bebefits.

Out here, EPFD starts paramedics in the low $40k range, with a 56-hour workweek and cert pay. The privates generally pay in the mid-20s to the mid-40s depending on schedule and experience. That's for paramedics.

The lowest one is $10/hour for paramedics at Life Ambulance El Paso. The average is around $12/hour. OT is plentiful, benefits aren't fantastic unless you're on the fire department. Retirement is meh at best.

East Texas has some better opportunities.

 

[DPM]

How many other developed countries have combined Fire / EMS systems? I can't think of any from Europe, NZ Australia are 3rd service....

I think in many instances the budget required for a 3rd service agency is available... The fire department gets it. If the FD ran only Fire / Rescue calls, what would their call volume be? And with those numbers, could they justify their current staffing levels?

I know it's a huge can of worms, but if FD didn't have EMS as well, would they be able to justify their staffing? Removing paramedics from engines, in some cases I'm sure, would remove the need to have as many fire houses.

The payroll savings, as well as maintenance etc etc, would they leave enough in the budget from a properly run Ambulance Service?

 

[CrackerBDingus]

In Socal I asked my emt instructor what fire salaries start as. For his deparment Anaheim, a FF starts at 60k no OT. He claims many get up to 100k with OT. I don't even know what a fire medic makes, but I'm willing to bet they start around 70-75k and OT gets huge. Who says EMS doesn't make money?

 

[FourLoko]

Clinical capacity and judgement is entirely person dependent. There is no reason why someone cannot be an excellent paramedic and firefighter, they just have to work harder. There are far too many examples (especially in the emergency services) where professionals fill more than one role, yet this is the only one that brings up any argument. If firefighters can't make clinically sound medics because the fire training gets in the way, what say you to third service EMS medics running rescue trucks, HAZMAT units, and the like?

If a person has a desire to be good at all they do, they will be. Too many institutions allow their providers to be less than good at what they do, and that's where there are problems.

Werd. Nothing catches on fire around here except the hills and that's Wildland FF.

City fire medics have plenty of time to practice, study, etc. Easy.

 

[terrible one]

In Socal I asked my emt instructor what fire salaries start as. For his deparment Anaheim, a FF starts at 60k no OT. He claims many get up to 100k with OT. I don't even know what a fire medic makes, but I'm willing to bet they start around 70-75k and OT gets huge. Who says EMS doesn't make money?

Private EMS doesn't make money. And outside CA and vegas/Clark county. The majority of FDs don't start anywhere near that much.