Private EMS second class?

jgw1981

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I am a paramedic at a large private EMS company in metro Detroit. In the past year or so, there have been several cities who have lost ALS transport and in at least one case lost the ENTIRE fire department due to lack of money in that city. With private EMS taking over.

Before I begin my rant and dive into the subject, I will say this. I am a paramedic and very proud of it. I have no interest in performing the duties of a fire fighter, never have, never will. Furthermore I have an immense amount of respect for those who will run into somewhere that everyone is running out of. I will be right there waiting to render any assistance to them or whoever they rescue. With that said, as these departments have lost their transport abilities, meaning they lost men due to layoffs and positions not filled / eliminated due to attrition or retirement. When this happens, it is like clockwork the fire department goes to the media and says that the city and its citizens are now going to be in danger because "professional" firefighters will not be responding to medical emergencies. This is where I begin to see red. It has been implicated that the quality of service from private EMS is sub-par. It has been said that the individuals who are employed by these companies are all criminals and cannot do the job as well. It has been said several times that because the private companies are not union, the quality of service is not what you will get from the fire department.

My response to this is simple. I have the same training. I passed the same exam. I hold the same license to practice. I operate under the same protocols. There are no special schools that fire fighter / paramedics go to. They go to fire school, which has little to no medical training involved (my wife is a fire fighter). Then they go to paramedic school. There are no special certifications, and there is nothing different between what I learned in medic school and what anyone on a fire department learned in medic school. The difference. I became a paramedic to be a paramedic. How many firefighters became medics because it was a requirement of the job?

I will say in fairness there are differences. Lets start with staffing. When a private EMS firm shows up for 911 calls, it is just the two in the truck. Some cities run fire as first responders, some run non transporting ALS, some just pick and choose what calls they want to go on. Some don't show up at all. Anyways... those 2 crew members will typically make $25k - $35k generally speaking. There is no pension for those folks, the benifit packages are less, and depending on if it is a for profit or non profit, they have a 401-k or 403-b that do not cost the employer anywhere near the legacy costs of pensions / health benifits. When a fire department shows up, typically speaking 3-4 firefighters pop out of the rescue, and an engine rolls up with another 2-3 guys. Needless to say, those guys make more.

Next, lets talk about the trucks. Most fire departments have medium duty ambulances with kneeling capabilities. Some do use type III ambulances but a majority are the larger trucks. The private companies generally speaking have type II van type ambulances with some using type III mods. There is a cost difference there.

I figure I probably outta bring this to a close. I hate being told that because I am private, non union that my work is lower quality. I take pride in what I do, as do many of those I work with and have met at other companies. I love caring for the people, and do what I was trained to do to the best of my abilities. This is not an example of private companies forcing out city workers, it is simple economics and numbers. There are too many cities that simply cannot afford to run ALS transporting departments and the immediate as well as legacy cost involved. The fact of the matter is that none of us want to see someone lose a job, especially a fellow medic. Don't take it out on the folks on the ambulances. If there is someone who needs to take the heat for job losses, take it to city hall. The people there who have not seen anything cut out of their budgets, nor are their positions ever in danger are the ones to blame. If you lost your job because of a situation like this, please, knock on our doors. We will welcome you in with open arms. Yes there are more rules, yes the pay is lower, yes we do IFT from time to time, but its better than unemployment. Lets all just get along for god sakes!

** end of rant ** :wacko:
 

Frozennoodle

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From an employee standpoint, I think working for a private service is for the birds. They put emphasis on all the wrong things. My private service has a QA/QI department. I have been QA'd one time in two years for treatment. They wanted to know why I didn't put a hypotensive patient in trendelenberg. I wrote them back explaining that trendelenberg was now contraindicated and the pathophysiology behind it. They apologized and said they didn't know that and I have never heard from them again. In that same amount of time I have been asked to change my reports, or lie, about 30 times for billing reasons.

The pay and the equipment is substandard. We're not talking about operating at a national level of standard care but at a bare state minimum. We don't have capnography. Half the time our monitors don't work and when they do the a third of the leads don't print correctly or aren't even recognized. We recently got a 911 contract and we're funneling a lot of money into that with new units, new monitors, training for old medics who aren't up to speed, refurbishing IV pumps, etc. I think this is great stuff but we only run 2 units in that area. We run 10 trucks for our main area and we have critical care paramedics running in units without IV pumps or functioning monitors transporting critical patients without air condition in south-east heat and humidity!

We respond emergent to 911 roll-overs, nursing homes, LTACs, and private residences with substandard gear that has affected patient care. We work long hours, for less pay, some of the worst benefits I've ever seen, with medics who are not trained up to even 75% of what would be considered safe. It's not because they are bad people but we don't run the volume that 911 does in terms of medical and trauma patients. At my private service I see maybe 6 patients a week that will be transported to the ER and of those 6 patients I might have to ALS one of them. Some weeks I'll run many many more ER calls than IFT but that happens so rarely it averages out to where 10-20% of my patient contacts are actually complaining of something. You do your assessments on your transfers, try to stay sharp, but it's hard.

Where I live we have a private service covering our area. Acadian. We have 500sqmi of land with 34,000 residents covered by two medic units with the nearest hospitals 20 minutes away from the closest points. We don't have any hospitals in our parish at the moment. If they get two calls they rotate IFT dedicated trucks into the area or pull from their other 911 contracts. Two trucks for 500 square miles. Now they are great trucks that are well maintained with good equipment but that's part of the problem with private services. The people cutting the checks care about the bottom line and not about what's right. Working in 911 dispatch I saw first hand how they operated. We have guys flipped over in a ditch unresponsive waiting 45 minutes for an ambulance, 30 minutes, response times are horrible.

I'm very pro-third service EMS.
 

Anjel

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Amen.

However I have been hearing lately that there are talks that we are doing a better job than PFD.

Especially with the hospitals. I think private EMS doing 911 is new to some people. We just have to work harder and prove ourselves, which sucks, but the reality is that cities are seeing how much the FD is costing them. And it is cheaper for us to come in and do the dirty work.

I dropped a pt offf at the ER the other day and a FD was there dropping someome off too. The parents of our pt went to the FD and thanked them for their hard work and ignored us. Stupid. But oh well.
 
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jgw1981

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I completely understand the QA/QI thing for sure! I don't get it so much from my company, it actually get it from my med control authority. I was questioned by letter 3 weeks after a call why I didn't provide the 2nd and 3rd dose of 12mg of Adenosine for SVT per protocol, and my answer was simple....it converted to NSR with the 6mg dose and there was no need for follow on doses. Make me wonder who is reviewing these.
 
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jgw1981

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Public third service is a great idea, however all too often doesn't work so well. Calling it a 3rd service in and of itself implies that it gets treated less than its police and fire counterparts. Systems like Boston, Sussex County, and to an extent New Orleans (to name a few) work reasonbly well because they are ran on their own merits, not as a "toy" of the suppression division. While New York runs ok, there have been numerous articles about how the FDNY treats EMS as the red-headed step child. And ask the EMT's and Paramedics of Detroit Fire Department EMS how being a "3rd Service" is working out for them. Even before the big budget crisis, DEMS got the short end of the stick from DFD. A system that did work very well was MAST Ambulance in Kansas City. Well equipped, great service marks, good response times across the board. KCFD decided they wanted to take it over and while still well equipped, and the firefighters still provided good service, the response times took a big time hit. When politics and red-tape get in the way of doing things the right way nothing works well.
 

Frozennoodle

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Public third service is a great idea, however all too often doesn't work so well. Calling it a 3rd service in and of itself implies that it gets treated less than its police and fire counterparts. Systems like Boston, Sussex County, and to an extent New Orleans (to name a few) work reasonbly well because they are ran on their own merits, not as a "toy" of the suppression division. While New York runs ok, there have been numerous articles about how the FDNY treats EMS as the red-headed step child. And ask the EMT's and Paramedics of Detroit Fire Department EMS how being a "3rd Service" is working out for them. Even before the big budget crisis, DEMS got the short end of the stick from DFD. A system that did work very well was MAST Ambulance in Kansas City. Well equipped, great service marks, good response times across the board. KCFD decided they wanted to take it over and while still well equipped, and the firefighters still provided good service, the response times took a big time hit. When politics and red-tape get in the way of doing things the right way nothing works well.

New Orleans EMS is probably the one thing the city does well. I'm curious: what is your opinion of King County?
 

Anjel

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Is Lapeer county EMS a third? I think so. Theh do ok. But totally not staffed enough to handle their volume.

All of the cities they cover each have their own vollie. That seems to workwell. Just their response times suck.
 
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jgw1981

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I honestly do not know enough about King County (I am assuming in WA.) to have an opinion.
 

NYMedic828

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Public third service is a great idea, however all too often doesn't work so well. Calling it a 3rd service in and of itself implies that it gets treated less than its police and fire counterparts. Systems like Boston, Sussex County, and to an extent New Orleans (to name a few) work reasonbly well because they are ran on their own merits, not as a "toy" of the suppression division. While New York runs ok, there have been numerous articles about how the FDNY treats EMS as the red-headed step child. And ask the EMT's and Paramedics of Detroit Fire Department EMS how being a "3rd Service" is working out for them. Even before the big budget crisis, DEMS got the short end of the stick from DFD. A system that did work very well was MAST Ambulance in Kansas City. Well equipped, great service marks, good response times across the board. KCFD decided they wanted to take it over and while still well equipped, and the firefighters still provided good service, the response times took a big time hit. When politics and red-tape get in the way of doing things the right way nothing works well.

Word. -_-
 

Veneficus

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I know it is a rant but...

I think you are reading too much into the rhetoric.

Of course this is what the FD will say, they are trying to use fear to protect thier budget and their job.

It is not personal, they would say children are demonspawn parasites who bleed society to death if they thought it would help.

They are just desperate and not smart enough to make a reasonable argument.
 

abckidsmom

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I know it is a rant but...

I think you are reading too much into the rhetoric.

Of course this is what the FD will say, they are trying to use fear to protect thier budget and their job.

It is not personal, they would say children are demonspawn parasites who bleed society to death if they thought it would help.

They are just desperate and not smart enough to make a reasonable argument.

And they get their talking points from the AFL CIO. It's not like union propaganda has ever made sense, even when the position they hold is completely correct.
 

Veneficus

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And they get their talking points from the AFL CIO. It's not like union propaganda has ever made sense, even when the position they hold is completely correct.

Yea, I like the statement about when you have a medical emergency you will not get a professional firefighter.

Could you imagine using a different profession?

When your toilet is leaking, you will not get a professional mason to come and fix it.

or

When you go to the emergency room, a professional carpenter will not be there.
 
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jgw1981

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When I have a FIRE I expect a professional Fire Fighter to show up, when I have a medical emergency, I expect a professional EMT / Paramedic to show up. Since when does union membership indicate a professional?
 

Veneficus

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When I have a FIRE I expect a professional Fire Fighter to show up, when I have a medical emergency, I expect a professional EMT / Paramedic to show up. Since when does union membership indicate a professional?

I don't think you understand how propaganda works...

The claim doesn't have to be true. You just say it enough until everyone thinks it is. :cool:
 

Hunter

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I don't think you understand how propaganda works...

The claim doesn't have to be true. You just say it enough until everyone thinks it is. :cool:

This unfortunately
Beats this
Vvvvvv




When I have a FIRE I expect a professional Fire Fighter to show up, when I have a medical emergency, I expect a professional EMT / Paramedic to show up. Since when does union membership indicate a professional?
 

johnrsemt

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To the OP; find some of the towns that are losing fire based EMS coverage and send letters to the editor of the local papers; stating what you said. That they are not better EMS providers just because they are FF. People don't know that and need to know that.
Probably won't help with 90% of the people but some will read it, and politicians do actually read some stuff (or their staff does).
 

46Young

Level 25 EMS Wizard
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Yea, I like the statement about when you have a medical emergency you will not get a professional firefighter.

Could you imagine using a different profession?

When your toilet is leaking, you will not get a professional mason to come and fix it.

or

When you go to the emergency room, a professional carpenter will not be there.

The IAFF considers volunteers the enemy, since they "steal jobs" and other nonsense. They pissed off a lot of members when they tried to prohibit career firefighters from volunteering in other departments that have Union jobs. There are a lot of career FF's that volunteer as fire and EMS. Their propaganda is cheesy and embarrasing.
 

46Young

Level 25 EMS Wizard
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IMO, the privates don't belong in 911 EMS; pt care and being wholly dependent on income to sustain the operation do not mix.

I'd like Third Service EMS if they paid much better and had more career development in place. It's too much of a dead end job as it stands. Fire is really the only EMS delivery system that allows you to make a comfortable living and have a good retirement, for the most part. I could count the well paying Third Service EMS departments on one hand. Hint, $50k/yr is not that generous if you have to work 56 hours a week to claim that as a base. Even at 48 hrs it's lousy.

I used to think differently, but when evaluating an employer I first look to how the department benefits the worker, and consider everything else secondary. The EMS system could be the most progressive in the world, with top of the line equipment and liberal medical guidelines, with an 85% cardiac arrest save rate, but I'll still hold a disdain for that system if their employees are being paid peanuts, working long hours, no career advancement to speak of, and having a crappy retirement to look forward to.
 

abckidsmom

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The IAFF considers volunteers the enemy, since they "steal jobs" and other nonsense. They pissed off a lot of members when they tried to prohibit career firefighters from volunteering in other departments that have Union jobs. There are a lot of career FF's that volunteer as fire and EMS. Their propaganda is cheesy and embarrasing.

It actually makes me sick that we use our money to support this stupid machine in the name of "brotherhood." I resent the heck out of the stupid union dues and I am NOT looking forward to this election year with those stupid firefighters in stupid union tshirts used as a political backdrop supporting whichever guy is giving the most promises to the AFL-CIO.

It doesn't even have to have anything to do with the union.

They consider part-time medics the enemy too, since they take a 'real' position away. And yet the full-time medics love when I work and give them a break off the stupid medic unit. As if I ever wanted a break from the medic unit too.

/rant.
 
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