Pregnant Women.

hey you leave her out of this! she makes one hell of a sandwich!
 
Mountain Res-Q said:
Interesting. So a high school graduate working at McDonalds is superior (which I take to mean a better human being) than some child living in Darfur? I do not agree at all with this. I look at government as an example. How many in government graduated from Yale, Harvard, and the like? They have more education and experience in life than me, yet I do not consider tehm seperior, nor do I have much respect for more than 95% of them. On the other hand, someone wiht a paramedic level of certification is legally superior to me in his legal capabilities... he is my superior... but that does not make him superior. There are many people in life (and some on these forums) that are more educated and experienced than me... and yet, I consider them (based on their atitude adn actions here) to be inferier human beings... On the other hand, there are some here with less education and experience (or the same amount) that I am proud to call fellow EMSers. Education might make you A SUPERIOR... but not SUPERIOR!
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Your opinion is fine, but by definition, yes they are. The Darfur example is a poor analogy and yes someone having gainful employment in the safe environment of the US is in most aspects superior to living in the atrocities of Darfur.

Whether you respect someone is your own decision, my point is that all too often, the younger generation weighes too heavily on their opinions instead of actually listening to those who may be able to influence them. That instant mental block prohibits some folks from internalizing information and actually learning something that may be beneficial to their career and more importantly, their future patients.

When you were in high school, did you actually listen to your teachers? What if you had no interest in the subject, did you do the work anyways? More than likely you did, because that was what was required of you. You didn't do it because you liked it.

Employment in EMS is the same methodology. When you start, you are to learn and listen. No one really cares your personal thoughts on someone, but you still listen to them. Once you get some experience under your belt, then you can start waving your opinions around.

The same goes for this whole preggo issue. Sorry, but yes people do need to be mindful of their decisions and my thought process has no bearing or proportion to the amount of "hotties" i've been with. You can make that decision even in the heat of the moment, been there, done that, and if I wasn't married and was out playing the field again, I would.

Yea guys can be convincing, its called manipulation to get what they want. Don't fall for it!
Or perhaps its a two way street and the lady is also looking for something. Again, it IS an informed decision in most cases......................................

Bringing a child into this world is an absolute blessing. My kids are the light of my life. But just as there is increasing inmaturity in our career field, there is also increasing irresponsibility without acceptance of responsibility. Some folks need to see that and stop displacing blame.
 
Flight-LP said:
Your opinion is fine, but by definition, yes they are. The Darfur example is a poor analogy and yes someone having gainful employment in the safe environment of the US is in most aspects superior to living in the atrocities of Darfur.

Whether you respect someone is your own decision, my point is that all too often, the younger generation weighes too heavily on their opinions instead of actually listening to those who may be able to influence them. That instant mental block prohibits some folks from internalizing information and actually learning something that may be beneficial to their career and more importantly, their future patients.

When you were in high school, did you actually listen to your teachers? What if you had no interest in the subject, did you do the work anyways? More than likely you did, because that was what was required of you. You didn't do it because you liked it.

Employment in EMS is the same methodology. When you start, you are to learn and listen. No one really cares your personal thoughts on someone, but you still listen to them. Once you get some experience under your belt, then you can start waving your opinions around.

The same goes for this whole preggo issue. Sorry, but yes people do need to be mindful of their decisions and my thought process has no bearing or proportion to the amount of "hotties" i've been with. You can make that decision even in the heat of the moment, been there, done that, and if I wasn't married and was out playing the field again, I would.

Yea guys can be convincing, its called manipulation to get what they want. Don't fall for it!
Or perhaps its a two way street and the lady is also looking for something. Again, it IS an informed decision in most cases......................................

Bringing a child into this world is an absolute blessing. My kids are the light of my life. But just as there is increasing inmaturity in our career field, there is also increasing irresponsibility without acceptance of responsibility. Some folks need to see that and stop displacing blame.
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Im not sure how people not taking responsibility for their actions came into play. The whole issue was if a pregnant woman should or could work throughout the pregnancy. Also I think Mountain was just trying to get across that just because you have an IQ higher than others or went to school longer doesn't mean that you are superior to anybody. There is nobody out there that is superior to anybody but I hate to say it if you go through life acting like you are superior to someone because for whatever reason they did not receive the level of education that you have you are not going to be well liked. As far as Im concerned in the entire medical field we can all learn from each other, no matter what letters you add to end of your name. Schooling doesn't equal superiority
 
No one is saying they are Superior to anyone else. What is being said is that there are people that will automatically assume that they know what they are doing and will not listen to the ones that have the experience over them. You see it here all the time, when someone corrects a noobies post. They take it personal and go into a hissy fit.

Stop, Listen and Learn from the ones that have more education, more experience and have made the same mistakes that you may be heading for. Why make the same mistake over, if you can learn from those that have done it?

Were you instructors in school brand new EMT's or Medics? NO, they were not. Most are experienced providers with a lot more education then you. That is why you went to them to learn. Why is it any different in life or on a forum?
 
I will point out three things...

Flight-LP said:
Your opinion is fine, but by definition, yes they are. The Darfur example is a poor analogy and yes someone having gainful employment in the safe environment of the US is in most aspects superior to living in the atrocities of Darfur.

Whether you respect someone is your own decision, my point is that all too often, the younger generation weighes too heavily on their opinions instead of actually listening to those who may be able to influence them. That instant mental block prohibits some folks from internalizing information and actually learning something that may be beneficial to their career and more importantly, their future patients.

When you were in high school, did you actually listen to your teachers? What if you had no interest in the subject, did you do the work anyways? More than likely you did, because that was what was required of you. You didn't do it because you liked it.

Employment in EMS is the same methodology. When you start, you are to learn and listen. No one really cares your personal thoughts on someone, but you still listen to them. Once you get some experience under your belt, then you can start waving your opinions around.

The same goes for this whole preggo issue. Sorry, but yes people do need to be mindful of their decisions and my thought process has no bearing or proportion to the amount of "hotties" i've been with. You can make that decision even in the heat of the moment, been there, done that, and if I wasn't married and was out playing the field again, I would.

Yea guys can be convincing, its called manipulation to get what they want. Don't fall for it!
Or perhaps its a two way street and the lady is also looking for something. Again, it IS an informed decision in most cases......................................

Bringing a child into this world is an absolute blessing. My kids are the light of my life. But just as there is increasing inmaturity in our career field, there is also increasing irresponsibility without acceptance of responsibility. Some folks need to see that and stop displacing blame.
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Superior to SOMEONE Living in Darfur? Or to Living in Darfur. They are stll not s auperior human being, just have better circumstances. Doesn't make THEM better... just their situation.

Yes, actually my philosphy here on respect and listening still applys. I can think of sevral teaches that I respected and would listen to becasue they cared and wanted to teach; showing a personal interest... I loved doing the work they assigned (and then some)and excelled in the subjects they taught. Other teachers sucked; so I only did the work because I had to and got in to far more trouble (in grade school) when I had such teachers.

I agree with that last highlighted point. But you can not blame it all on the youngins. They need to learn to listen from the getgo. But even if they listen initially, who can blame them when all they get is attitude, put downs, and "old fart" flack? I am only 26, young to some... but with EMTs and FFs hitting the streets at 17-18 years old, I have been considered by some to be a old salt. I too find the attitudes and habits of these younger ones to be strange, as I seemed to have skipped my teen years. I LOVE taking newbies under my wing and making sure that they are prepared for the real world aspects of EMS and SAR. I have met those that think they know it all and WILL NOT listent to what anyone with more insight (not neccessarily knowledge) has to say. Others want the outside influence to guide them, but will only accept it from those that provide it in an appropriate manner; never acting superior (even if, in your opinion, they are). I work with several people who are vastly superior in knowledge, age, and ability than me who are positions of authority; some with "superiority complexes" and some with a humble "come, let me teach you" attitude... like myself. Who do you think the youngins want to learn from? Which environment do you think enables them (generally speaking) to learn better and more? I may be superior in knowledge and ability and experience to some newbies, but why beat them over the head with it? If I am truley a "good human being" (superior in cetain ways) than my actions and teh way I conduct myself will demonstrate that to them and then maybe they will have some respect for waht I have to say. IMHO... and I am willing to say that I might be wrong in my analysis of the world, but this is my experience...
 
reaper said:
No one is saying they are Superior to anyone else.
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No one has to say it. They way the conduct themselves and respond to people is at issue. You can say the same thing two different ways and it comes out two COMPLETELY different ways... a reflection of your attitude. A humble person with more knowledge and experience doesn't need to flaunt it, but kindly offers their opinion based on their "superiority" in the hopes of helping others. A person who believes themselves to be better and wants to prove it will do and say anything to elevate themselves over others, regardless of just how "superior" they really are. In reality hardly anyone respects them enough to listen to them. Many pople here speak of increasing education... I can not argue with that. But many of those same people "beat down" those with lesser education who are endeavoring to increase it. "Until you get to my level, you are beneath me!!!" Is see it in real life and hear. It is sad because those same people who have so much to offer in the way of education and encouragement are often ignored... due in large part to their attitude which can turn even the most respectful and eager to learn newbie away. IMHO.

I know that my line of thought here ventures away from the prego thread base, but I beleive taht the reason so many threads turn into fights is that no one is willing to approach discussions with a humble attitude; a discussion between fellow EMSers and human beings. Too many people want to prove how smart and superior they are by shouting it out in posts... the world according to the poster "listen to me and respect me." When it comes to the issue of pregnancy in EMS, there are obviously many viewpoints and personal beliefs on what should be done my THEMSELVES. They all have merit and should be analyized objectively and personal desisions should be made that reflect the reality for that person. Any while I and any of you can say "this is what I would do and this is why", it is no my place or anyones to say "this is how it is!" IMHO
 
The wisest man I know once told me "Its not what you say but how you say it."
 
I believe that is what this thread was all about, before it was taken personally!

Most true educators do not beat around the bush or sugar coat things. This can be taken in a negative view, in a written forum. If you are here to truly learn something, then you let it slide off and take in what they are trying to teach. EMS has never been for the faint at heart or the easily offendable. Most of the time, there is not time to sugar coat things. You get to the point and teach what needs to be known.

So, advice for any new person to the forum or EMS. Do not take offense to what someone says. Listen to what they are saying and learn from it!
 
The only people in world who don't learn are those with a closed mind.
 
Mountain Res-Q said:
Superior to SOMEONE Living in Darfur? Or to Living in Darfur. They are stll not s auperior human being, just have better circumstances. Doesn't make THEM better... just their situation.
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You are absolutely correct about my choice of semantics. I stand corrected and thank you for bringing this point out.

Mountain Res-Q said:
I agree with that last highlighted point. But you can not blame it all on the youngins. They need to learn to listen from the getgo. But even if they listen initially, who can blame them when all they get is attitude, put downs, and "old fart" flack? I am only 26, young to some... but with EMTs and FFs hitting the streets at 17-18 years old, I have been considered by some to be a old salt. I too find the attitudes and habits of these younger ones to be strange, as I seemed to have skipped my teen years. I LOVE taking newbies under my wing and making sure that they are prepared for the real world aspects of EMS and SAR. I have met those that think they know it all and WILL NOT listent to what anyone with more insight (not neccessarily knowledge) has to say. Others want the outside influence to guide them, but will only accept it from those that provide it in an appropriate manner; never acting superior (even if, in your opinion, they are). I work with several people who are vastly superior in knowledge, age, and ability than me who are positions of authority; some with "superiority complexes" and some with a humble "come, let me teach you" attitude... like myself. Who do you think the youngins want to learn from? Which environment do you think enables them (generally speaking) to learn better and more? I may be superior in knowledge and ability and experience to some newbies, but why beat them over the head with it? If I am truley a "good human being" (superior in cetain ways) than my actions and teh way I conduct myself will demonstrate that to them and then maybe they will have some respect for waht I have to say. IMHO... and I am willing to say that I might be wrong in my analysis of the world, but this is my experience...
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Well spoken and I think we are more on the same page than you thank. But their is a reason to beat them over the head with it. That reason is the patients that will rely on these hard heads to ensure the delivery of quality care. Doing things half a$$ed from the get-go not only leads to bad habits and complacency, it can and probably will cause malfeasance. We are resobsible for leading the future of this industry. We preach what we want to succeed, we must also act to ensure that success. I am not in this industry to be liked or accepted as friendly. I have my social circle and my family. My purpose in medicine is to provide exceptional care to the best of my capabilities and to promote the future of pre-hospital and interfacility medicine. No less is expected from me and I expect no less from those under my wing............................

More to come, gotta fly for now.....................
 
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