Personal Protection

[Shishkabob]

You call what happened in the Warren v DC case a "response?" That's like paramedics leaving a 911 call because no one answers the door is a "response." I'm so happy that you can condone missing multiple 911 calls and a response consisting on "hmm, no one answers when I knock" that leads to 3 ladies being raped, abused, and robbed for several hours.

I didn't condone it and I'm so happy that you can gather that from what I wrote. I was reiterating the decision that no one is guaranteed any sort of adequate response to their calls for help, and that no one is forced by any sort of law to put their life in danger for someone else.

On the same token, police, as well as EMS, should do everything in their power when called to the scene of an emergency to make sure there is no actual emergency going on, which those officers failed to do.

In what version of reality were there not police on scene at North Hollywood?

I was speaking of the EMS providers not providing care to Matasareanu, which led to his family suing, which they ended up losing, not of the police officers.

 

[Bloom-IUEMT]

1) I love how you just compared our duty to respond to a non-violent medical emergency, to an officers duty to respond to a violent call.

We aren't required to go on scene if there is violence, and neither are they. North Hollywood shootout anyone?



2) Get out of the country if you hate it so much.

Goosfrabba, gooooooossssfrrraaaabbbbaaaa, goooosssffrraaaabbbaaaa

 

[JPINFV]

I didn't condone it and I'm so happy that you can gather that from what I wrote. I was reiterating the decision that no one is guaranteed any sort of adequate response to their calls for help, and that no one is forced by any sort of law to put their life in danger for someone else.

On the same token, police, as well as EMS, should do everything in their power when called to the scene of an emergency to make sure there is no actual emergency going on, which those officers failed to do.

I'm glad that we agree on the part that I bolded. While I agree, in essence, that no one should have to put their lives on the line for others (I say, "in essence" because of situations like active shooter situations), the problem I see in this case is that the officers have to make a meaningful response to actually be in danger of anything which is why I responded to your original response in that manner.

I was speaking of the EMS providers not providing care to Matasareanu, which led to his family suing, which they ended up losing, not of the police officers.

Gotcha. How I interpreted what you wrote was that you were talking about the police officers, not the EMS response. Also, IIRC, there was confusion on scene about whether there was 2 or 3 perpetrators.

 

[mycrofft]

And five is four.

What's goosfrabba?
PM me, I'm outta Romper Room here.

 

[eveningsky339]

I think it's important for EMTs and medics to NOT "carry". In some dangerous areas, the crews are safe only because the gangs know that the ambulance crews are there solely to save lives. If they had to worry about the ambulance crews carrying weapons, they might shoot at them, too. Why endanger the lives of all of the various emergency and transport crews?

THANK YOU.

The day EMTs have to worry about violence on the same level as LEOs, is the day society allows us to carry.

If EMTs want to wear stab or bullet proof vests, then by all means, do so. The vests will protect you much more than a flippin' handgun.

 

[DT4EMS]

THANK YOU.

The day EMTs have to worry about violence on the same level as LEOs, is the day society allows us to carry.

If EMTs want to wear stab or bullet proof vests, then by all means, do so. The vests will protect you much more than a flippin' handgun.

Actually.........they do. But I will still disagree with the average EMS provider being armed with a firearm while on duty.

I have spent the last 14 years training EMS providers in scene safety skills. We are dealing with a breed that tends to put everyone elses safety before their own. While honorable, it does not always end with the best outcome.

There are several studies, including the most recent by Dr. Brian McGuire showing that EMS providers face assaults at a rate 30 times that of other private sector jobs.

The NAEMT study showed 52% of EMS providers were injured on the job due to assaults.

The Buruea of Labor Statistics found a healthcare provider was more likely to be assaulted on the job than a police officer or prison guard.


Now back to the topic of the original post...........

If you carry a weapon on duty......... and your employer "allows" it, is there a policy in place? Training?
What do you do "if" you use it? What if you used it at the wrong time?

I am 100% behind the safety of our providers. It's what I do...but you better be prepared to handle all "4" areas of self-protection........... Media, Legal, Skills, and Mental.

Don't be an ex-EMS'r in prison. Oh, but of course that has never happened........ just did.... Denver......... medic sentened to 12 years for "self-defense".

 

[Shishkabob]

The day EMTs have to worry about violence on the same level as LEOs, is the day society allows us to carry.

Err, you DO realize that incidents of violence are higher in the healthcare field then LE, with studies to back it up, correct?

Think about it... those psych patients or the idiots who just feel like fighting cops and getting hurt... they pretty much always have to be checked by medical. And sometimes we have to end up transporting those violent individuals.



Heck, I've pretty much only been a student, and I can tell you of 3 occasions where I wrestled someone, 1 occasion where I was bit, and 1 time where a person was Tased. That's in just over a year with MINIMAL field time.

 

[eveningsky339]

Err, you DO realize that incidents of violence are higher in the healthcare field then LE, with studies to back it up, correct?

No, I am not. Perhaps you could point me in the direction of these studies?

Think about it... those psych patients or the idiots who just feel like fighting cops and getting hurt... they pretty much always have to be checked by medical. And sometimes we have to end up transporting those violent individuals.

True that, but shooting these individuals is somewhat contradictory to the goals of EMS. Or even carrying a lethal weapon, for that matter.

Heck, I've pretty much only been a student, and I can tell you of 3 occasions where I wrestled someone, 1 occasion where I was bit, and 1 time where a person was Tased. That's in just over a year with MINIMAL field time.

I've had my fair share of those dreaded "behavioural emergencies" and I've seen a couple of guys get tased in my day. I've even subdued a violent nursing home resident at two in the morning.

But all that aside, we are there to provide medical care. Scene safety is the primary responsibility of the LEO, and it usually plays out that way in this area, with some exceptions.

And may I point out again that there are those in this thread advocating that EMTs carry handguns. Shooting psych patients is not the goal of EMS. The very notion is ridiculous.

 

[TransportJockey]

And may I point out again that there are those in this thread advocating that EMTs carry handguns. Shooting psych patients is not the goal of EMS. The very notion is ridiculous.

Where are you seeing the people are saying it's ok for EMS to carry on duty?

 

[FLEMTP]

I am totally against paramedics and EMT's carrying handguns.


They SHOULD be carrying M16's!

Besides.. i get tired carrying a gun everywhere.. id rather just leave it in the holster on my hip... much more practical!:beerchug:

 

[LucidResq]

Haldol Dart Gun, please.

 

[Bloom-IUEMT]

What's goosfrabba?
PM me, I'm outta Romper Room here.

"Serenity now!" also suffices. B) What is romper room??
It annoys me that certain people don't believe officers should be held accountable for their stupidity and callousness. It annoys when people think they need to defend all actions of officers because of some apparent anti-LE leanings of this forum or in any criticism of LEO. I believe anyone who is now, or has been involved in LE should agree that protection of life is paramount, especially when the law is being broken. I don't hate cops, I don't believe anyone here does. And if they do, they are probably mentally retarded or don't have at least a somewhat scientific way of thinking. I personally I have yet to meet someone in LE that I like. But never would I surmise on the basis of my encounters with a half dozen officers, both as a citizen or as an EMT, that every single one the millions of officers is a POS. That would be ignorant. Same goes for Texans

 

[HNutley]

I don't think that EMT's or medics should carry weapons and that is on a personal level. I have carried a concealed weapon in my own personal vehicle years ago when I had a concealed weapons permit. Beyond that I would never carry one on the ambulance. I have known of patient's who were picked up by an ambulance, the patient had a concealed weapon in their bag and they were taken to the local hospital first and then to the bigger hospital 42 miles away for more definitive care before the weapon was found. Personally I would be worried about the patient getting my weapon and using it on me or my partner.

 

[firecoins]

I always carry personal protection,,,,in my wallet. I am Trojan Man.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Do any of you carry defensive weapons (knife, baton) for a worst case scenario when all the **** hits the fan? Is this even legal?

OK, let's get this back on track......

My brain and my hands.h34r:

And you can add elbows and feet and knees if it gets bad. Never have had to. In all probability, never will.

 

[nemedic]

What's goosfrabba?
PM me, I'm outta Romper Room here.

It's from the movie "Anger Management". Came out a few years ago, starred Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson

 

[NERDulance]

I have not yet fleshed out my thinking on this matter.

However, I am in general agreement that I would rather lose my job and my license because I violated company policy than get killed by some idiot patient. I can always get another job. Another life on the other hand....

I guess the key here would be to fully understand when and ONLY when lethal force is justified.

I carry a firearm daily, everywhere I go, practically. I do so for the sole reason that I believe in self responsibility even for my own personal safety.

Sure the intention of EMS is to save lives. I personally wish to cause no harm and live in total peace with everyone. But some things you just can’t let happen. Like being murdered by an idiot.

I have had to draw my firearm once with the intention of using it. Man came at me with a knife. Thankfully he was quite obvious about his intentions from a good distance away and, when he saw that I was not easy prey, he put his knife away went the other way. Hopefully he rethought his life. Scary though!

 

[MTEMTB]

After the EMT was shot here in MT and killed my husband wanted me to get a gun to carry with me on any call.
I told him she never knew the guy was there and if you do not know that the danger is there, there is nothing you can do.
I just recieved my concealed weapons permit, but like I told the officer I dealt with I have no plans to have any weapon on me on ANY call.

I have taken 2 different self defense courses.