Patient Privacy in public

heatherabel3

heatherabel3

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So I was reading on another forum a thread about patient privacy in public that got pretty heated and it got me to thinking...why is there no right to expectation of privacy when you become a patient in public? Should the same rules not apply in the pre hospital setting as do in the ED? And if so, why, with as many EMS workers as there are, could this not be taken to the correct government officials and changed?
 
The expectation is that you as an EMT/Paramedic will do what you can to protect the privacy of the patient. Also, in the hospital setting, the workers there also do what they can to protect the privacy. HIPPA.
 
Bring patient in ambulance.

Shut doors.

Profit.
 
HIPPA does not apply to the random person taking pics at an accident scene. I know that of course the first and most obvious choice is to use a sheet or load in the ambulance but that isn't always possible or fast enough or there wouldn't be YouTube videos and graphic photos of patients all over the internet. I'm just saying, I don't think its unreasonable to push that statute outside of hospitals to cover any person when they become a patient on any setting.
 
It is completely reasonable to expect that we will work to maintain the patient's privacy. Unfortunately, it is not always possible to have people hold a sheet, or even to cover the patient with a sheet. It is not always in the best interest of the patient to move to the ambulance, and sometimes you just don't have the resources to address privacy issues because of patient needs.

That being said, I do my level best to respect privacy issues, and I have people thank me for my discretion all the time.

I work in my hometown, and know everyone. I took a patient once with pneumonia that had her asthma flared up, but something didn't look right. I asked her for any additional medical problems, and she denied them. She continued to deny any other significant history but told me her meds. HIV prophylaxis. So I asked her point blank about her HIV status, and she admitted to being panicked that she was transitioning to full blown AIDS, and didn't want to face that, so she said nothing.
 
heatherabel3 said:
HIPPA does not apply to the random person taking pics at an accident scene. I know that of course the first and most obvious choice is to use a sheet or load in the ambulance but that isn't always possible or fast enough or there wouldn't be YouTube videos and graphic photos of patients all over the internet. I'm just saying, I don't think its unreasonable to push that statute outside of hospitals to cover any person when they become a patient on any setting.
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What is HIPPA?

Nevermind, I found it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hippa
Hippa

Hip"pa\, Hippe \Hip"pe\, n. (Zo["o]l.) A genus of marine decapod crustaceans, which burrow rapidly in the sand by pushing themselves backward; -- called also bait bug. See Illust. under Anomura.
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Sweet, I get to engage in this debate over here now. Awesome! [/dripping sarcasm]
 
The fact that people still call it Hippa makes my brain hurt....
 
My thoughts are posted in that other forum, same user name
 
Bullets said:
My thoughts are posted in that other forum, same user name
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At least over here I won't go through 12 pages of being called a pinko commie occupy socialist liberal.
 
JPINFV said:
At least over here I won't go through 12 pages of being called a pinko commie occupy socialist liberal.
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You're a pinko commie occupy socialist liberal... and you're funny looking :p
 
The pt had no expectation that they would be exposed publicly, so publishers and snap happy camera/cell phone carriers might keep that in mind.
 
People can debate this until they are blue in the face, but it is pretty straight forward. People have no expectation of privacy in a public place or any place visible from public property. Because of this we have a responsibility to our patients to keep them as covered as possible. As Dana said, sometimes it is not always possible to hold up sheets or keep a patient covered.

If a FF here ever sprayed a bystander to make them go away I'm pretty sure they would end up in very very deep trouble.
 
I haven't used a hose on a crowd at a medical scene, but I've done it on a couple of fires. For medical scenes, I've found that swinging the long spine board in a big circle gives me plenty of room to work.:P
 
Aidey said:
People can debate this until they are blue in the face, but it is pretty straight forward. People have no expectation of privacy in a public place or any place visible from public property. Because of this we have a responsibility to our patients to keep them as covered as possible. As Dana said, sometimes it is not always possible to hold up sheets or keep a patient covered.

If a FF here ever sprayed a bystander to make them go away I'm pretty sure they would end up in very very deep trouble.
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What sort of hippy liberal occupoo talk is that? Be a real Amerikan, like the kids in the inner city, rural America, or members of the military, and take that camera and break it, because it's wrong, WRONG I say, to take a picture of a poor helpless patient.


Ok, you know what, I'm having problems typing that even as a joke.
 
I made myself read the entire thread. It sounds like a bunch of internet tough guys who are mouthing off.

This reminds me of AD's blog post about libertarians going full wookie.
 
I did not mention what the heat was on the other forum because I didn't want it brought here. This is not a right or wrong, what would you do, legal or illegal thread. I am simply asking why it couldn't be changed. Why couldn't the law be written to cover patients in public places? I seem to be getting "because its public" which is an empty answer.
 
There are too many variables, it would be very hard to draft a law that covers everyone in all cases. There is zero chance of it changing on a federal level, it just isn't going to happen. If any state enacted such a law it could be easily challenged and probably overturned based on existing case law. "Because it is public" is not an empty answer, it has been well established that people have no expectation of privacy while in public. That answer has legal precedent behind it.
 
heatherabel3 said:
I did not mention what the heat was on the other forum because I didn't want it brought here. This is not a right or wrong, what would you do, legal or illegal thread. I am simply asking why it couldn't be changed. Why couldn't the law be written to cover patients in public places? I seem to be getting "because its public" which is an empty answer.
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The 1st Amendment gives the citizens the freedom of the press.

The Courts have repeatedly said that freedom of the press is a right of the people, not just people employed in journalism (you have freedom of the press, I have freedom of the press, etc).

The Courts have said that we have a right to film government employees (this is the Boston police filming case), which definitely covers non-private services.

Personally, I would extrapolate that further and say that if a case goes to court regarding a government contractor operating out in public that (i.e. private service with a 911 contract), for the same reason, it would be ruled to be covered under 1st Amendment protection.

More importantly, there's the issue of enforcement. How far away does it cover? Does it cover incidental photography? What about security camera footage (which is currently extremely important in a Southern California incident which has one police officer facing second degree murder charges and another facing manslaughter charges after they beat a homeless man to death)?

Finally, what other rights do we give up just because there's an emergency situation nearby (since no one is arguing that a reasonable exclusion zone can't be created, thus this is about what happens beyond the barrier)?
 
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