Paramedic Program that doesn't require immunizations?
- Thread starter Malkn
- Start date
FiremanMike
Just a dude
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Been a Christian my whole life, never found a verse in the Bible that dealt with immunizations..
Anyhoo… you’re just going to have to call the programs in your area and find out if you can sign a waiver..
Anyhoo… you’re just going to have to call the programs in your area and find out if you can sign a waiver..
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No.
What immunizations don't your religious beliefs allow you to receive?
What immunizations don't your religious beliefs allow you to receive?
E tank
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Can't speak for everyone about ethical objections to vaccines, but historically the objection has been to those vaccines derived using fetal cell lines that originated in an abortion. No use of those cell lines, no ethical impediment.
What really made the Covid inoculation complicated for some people was that fetal cell lines were not used in the production of one of them (I think the Pfizer) but they were used in the testing, such as it was.
Mandated reception of a rushed, novel, non-trialed mRNA category vaccine was understandably unsettling and required total submission to the idea that the 'mandators' knew what they were doing. Many people objected on that basis.
So, electing to not get the vaccine spanned both religious and non religious objections. To an employer, it's very important that someone who has some kind of objection to an invasive mandate is able to coherently articulate the specific issues in a rational, non-polemic way. Otherwise you just come off looking like a kook.
What really made the Covid inoculation complicated for some people was that fetal cell lines were not used in the production of one of them (I think the Pfizer) but they were used in the testing, such as it was.
Mandated reception of a rushed, novel, non-trialed mRNA category vaccine was understandably unsettling and required total submission to the idea that the 'mandators' knew what they were doing. Many people objected on that basis.
So, electing to not get the vaccine spanned both religious and non religious objections. To an employer, it's very important that someone who has some kind of objection to an invasive mandate is able to coherently articulate the specific issues in a rational, non-polemic way. Otherwise you just come off looking like a kook.
I am a kook for Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:18-19
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
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Any.
Thank you. Did you want to see those scripture verses?
E tank
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Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Rom 13:1
....and here we go...I'm gonna stop, but just suffice it to say that if someone cannot specifically articulate a commonly accepted and endorsed religious objection to a certain mandate by an employer (or school, I guess) odds of it being accepted might not be good. Sounds like if it's that important to you, you better consult with an attorney.
....and here we go...I'm gonna stop, but just suffice it to say that if someone cannot specifically articulate a commonly accepted and endorsed religious objection to a certain mandate by an employer (or school, I guess) odds of it being accepted might not be good. Sounds like if it's that important to you, you better consult with an attorney.
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I don't get the connection between the verses you quoted and vaccinations, but I do have a question for you that might save you time and money: As a medic, would you administer an immunization to an alert patient who qualified for it and wanted it, assuming you had the protocols and supplies to do so?
CCCSD
Forum Deputy Chief
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So you would rather die from something you could be vaccinated against. Yep. THATS the mindset I want from a medical provider…
MMR
Polio
Smallpox
Just a few things we eradicated and controlled but came back because idiots feel they know more than science based on a best selling fiction book which is quoted out of context daily.
MMR
Polio
Smallpox
Just a few things we eradicated and controlled but came back because idiots feel they know more than science based on a best selling fiction book which is quoted out of context daily.
FiremanMike
Just a dude
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By all means.
Are you aware that the fetal cells used for research were harvested in the 1960s and reproduced continuously over the years?
E tank
Caution: Paralyzing Agent
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For the sake of discussion, that the cell lines are no longer the actual aborted fetal cells is not necessarily a resolution to the ethical conflict. Sure, the original cells are pretty far removed from the cells as they exist today, but the fact that they originated from the objected to means still stands. Add to that the fact that it is not absolutely necessary for vaccines like the MMR to be produced using those cell lines. The polio vaccine used to use those lines and now does not. The MMR once did not and now does. I believe the MMR used in Japan does not.
It's a difficult call for conscientious objectors that want their actions to line up with their beliefs.
FiremanMike
Just a dude
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I completely understand and agree. I’ll be honest I wasn’t as informed on this subject before I started a bit of research today on the matter and realized they nearly ever vaccine has been tested against that cell line..
I guess I’d like to know if the fetus was aborted SOLELY for the sake of vaccine research..
RocketMedic
Californian, Lost in Texas
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Two questions:
@Malkn a huge component of this job involves seeing other people with different backgrounds and beliefs, interacting respectfully with them and working together to make the best of ethically-challenging situations. With your degree of religious fervor, you need to ask yourself if you can fairly and effectively do this job, and if you can handle challenges without outwardly citing your faith. Broadcasting a dependence on religion will rarely reinforce credibility as a provider, but will often lead to conflict.
Second; what is your proposal tin the event of exposure to disease? I’m not talking about controversial stuff like covid either…hepatitis is a common illness we contact daily, pertussis, etc. not saying you can’t do the job, but your risks are significantly higher without vaccination as our exposure is no longer hypothetical. Your employers may also disagree- there is no mandate for them to hire someone who is blatantly unvaccinated,
@Malkn a huge component of this job involves seeing other people with different backgrounds and beliefs, interacting respectfully with them and working together to make the best of ethically-challenging situations. With your degree of religious fervor, you need to ask yourself if you can fairly and effectively do this job, and if you can handle challenges without outwardly citing your faith. Broadcasting a dependence on religion will rarely reinforce credibility as a provider, but will often lead to conflict.
Second; what is your proposal tin the event of exposure to disease? I’m not talking about controversial stuff like covid either…hepatitis is a common illness we contact daily, pertussis, etc. not saying you can’t do the job, but your risks are significantly higher without vaccination as our exposure is no longer hypothetical. Your employers may also disagree- there is no mandate for them to hire someone who is blatantly unvaccinated,
Thank you. Did you want to see those scripture verses?
You didn't read that verse all the way through. If you're going to play Christian at least try.
“For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Romans 13:4 KJV
Here are the verses. All credit to the Lord, but shout out to my Brother in Christ, Bryan for compiling the verses.
"Mark 2:17a (KJV) When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the
physician, but they that are sick:
- Please note the difference between someone who is healthy (whole), and someone who is SICK.
Healthy people do NOT need to be “pre-treated” with a disease, in order to not get the disease!
1 Corinthians 3:16 (KJV) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God
dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 (KJV) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple
of God is holy, which temple ye are.
- ALL Vaccines contain toxic “adjuvants” such as Mercury (Thimerosal), Formaldehyde, Aluminum,
Propylene Glycol, and many others. The King James Bible gives ZERO permission to inject poisons
into the body with a needle!
Psalms 139:14 (KJV) I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy
works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
- Our bodies are perfectly capable of fighting off any disease IF we are in good health and our immune
system is functioning correctly. It is up to each individual to take care of their body which was given to
them by Almighty God, and no one has the right to take control of another man's body for ANY reason!"
As a paramedic, with a duty to care for patients according to well-defined standards, how would you incorporate your quoted beliefs into treatment decisions? Would you ever medicate? Resuscitate?
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These Bible verses don't specifically address vaccination, as vaccines weren't invented until many centuries after these texts were written.
Mark 2:17 - This verse is about Jesus responding to criticism for dining with tax collectors and sinners. He uses a metaphor about sick people needing doctors to explain why he associates with those considered spiritually "sick." The verse actually affirms the legitimate role of medical care for those who need it.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 - These verses use the metaphor of the body as God's temple to discuss spiritual purity and faithfulness within the church community. The context is about maintaining spiritual rather than physical purity.
Psalm 139:14 - This verse celebrates God's creation of human beings, including our immune system. Interestingly, vaccines work by training our God-given immune system to recognize and fight specific diseases.
The Bible encourages using wisdom and available means to preserve life and health. For example, 1 Timothy 5:23 shows Paul advising Timothy to use wine for medicinal purposes, demonstrating that the Bible supports using available medical treatments.
That said, again, I don't know of any program that allows religious exemptions for allied health programs. Please let us know if you find a program.
Mark 2:17 - This verse is about Jesus responding to criticism for dining with tax collectors and sinners. He uses a metaphor about sick people needing doctors to explain why he associates with those considered spiritually "sick." The verse actually affirms the legitimate role of medical care for those who need it.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 - These verses use the metaphor of the body as God's temple to discuss spiritual purity and faithfulness within the church community. The context is about maintaining spiritual rather than physical purity.
Psalm 139:14 - This verse celebrates God's creation of human beings, including our immune system. Interestingly, vaccines work by training our God-given immune system to recognize and fight specific diseases.
The Bible encourages using wisdom and available means to preserve life and health. For example, 1 Timothy 5:23 shows Paul advising Timothy to use wine for medicinal purposes, demonstrating that the Bible supports using available medical treatments.
That said, again, I don't know of any program that allows religious exemptions for allied health programs. Please let us know if you find a program.
akflightmedic
Forum Deputy Chief
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Are they? Is cancer a "disease"? If so, explain childhood cancer to me. These are the healthiest of the healthiest, as they are new, fresh, and unpolluted by vices and decades of gluttony. The ONLY disease they suddenly get is cancer.
Additionally, one could argue man 100s to 1000s of years ago had a much better natural diet, exercised daily, and slept quite a lot without any of our daily vices and bad habits. Yet these people died off...regularly, decades before our now current average life expectancy. The age 30-40 was "old". Females had to give birth as soon as they were capable (ages 10-13), in order for our species to survive and carry on. Cause they all knew, disease was prevalent, and death was always right around the corner. And since many babies did not survive, or died young in childhood from disease, they had to have as many babies as possible.
Anyways, science and history would say your statement of a healthy man being able to fight off ANY disease is a very uneducated, and incorrect position.
Please clarify, can someone take control of another woman's body? (Your last sentence seems to imply we can).
FiremanMike
Just a dude
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That bible verse says nothing about vaccination, your (or Bryan’s) interpretation is a stretch at best.
Does the Bible define those chemicals as toxicants, thereby stating that their injection defiles your body? I’m no bible scholar, but I’m pretty sure they were referring to purity of the spirit and intoxicating beverages.
I really can’t unwrap the absurdity of this statement and its poor application to the scripture quoted.
I would have engaged further if you keyed in on the usage of fetal cells for vaccine research, all of which have been cultivated from a single aborted fetus 65 years ago mind you. Instead you showed this entire forum your poor understanding of both the Bible and healthcare based in science.
I am Christian, I regularly attend church, but I also practice healthcare at the edge of both my licenses, care (emergent and preventative) that is based on science. I understand the cohabitation of spirituality and science and I think you might want to work towards that before you embark on this field.