Paid Dept. with Vollies

[patput]

I volunteer with my local 911 ALS ambulance squad, but lately the fun is gone. They are a mostly paid staff with drivers, EMT-B's (which we currently have two of, myself included), and other attendants being the only volunteers.

When I first joined I was as active as time permitted, however they have a shift policy and forbid responding to the station from home (I can literally see it out my window as I type this). This makes it hard for me to put in any time because the minimum shift length is 6 hours. I'm a full time college student and I work full time as well.

The past few times I have been to the station have been pretty negative experiences. The director pulls me aside for a 15 minute conversation about how I'm not active enough. All the medics have a sour attitude, but it was that way from the beginning. It just isn't a friendly place and never really was. Every call I run with them I'm nothing more than the vitals person for our 30+ minute transports. I feel like all the medics just don't care, they are there as their job and could care less about me trying to further my skills.

I feel like I'm just wasting my time there, and I would like to move on to our fire department. I think that would solve the time constraint problems, if I'm available I can run the call if not so be it. I've always had good interactions with all of their members, far better than my current department. I am certain this director will blast me those as a reference and I fear that will be the end of my application. Any thoughts or ideas?

 

[bigbaldguy]

I volunteer with my local 911 ALS ambulance squad, but lately the fun is gone. They are a mostly paid staff with drivers, EMT-B's (which we currently have two of, myself included), and other attendants being the only volunteers.

When I first joined I was as active as time permitted, however they have a shift policy and forbid responding to the station from home (I can literally see it out my window as I type this). This makes it hard for me to put in any time because the minimum shift length is 6 hours. I'm a full time college student and I work full time as well.

The past few times I have been to the station have been pretty negative experiences. The director pulls me aside for a 15 minute conversation about how I'm not active enough. All the medics have a sour attitude, but it was that way from the beginning. It just isn't a friendly place and never really was. Every call I run with them I'm nothing more than the vitals person for our 30+ minute transports. I feel like all the medics just don't care, they are there as their job and could care less about me trying to further my skills.

I feel like I'm just wasting my time there, and I would like to move on to our fire department. I think that would solve the time constraint problems, if I'm available I can run the call if not so be it. I've always had good interactions with all of their members, far better than my current department. I am certain this director will blast me those as a reference and I fear that will be the end of my application. Any thoughts or ideas?

When the fun goes out of something it's time to take a break or move on. It doesn't do anyone any good if you allow yourself to become bitter and burned out. You suffer,your co workers suffer, your family suffers and possibly most importantly your patients suffer.

 

[TransportJockey]

Honestly, responding from home is a policy that should be done away with, in my opinion. At the dept I volunteer with, if you're not at the station with me when we get a call, you're not going. I will not wait for volunteers to show up so they can play EMT.
And as for vitals taker... if there's a medic on the truck, it's their patient unless they turn over care to a lower license. And as a medic, I won't do that unless I KNOW the basic or intermediate I'm running with is competent. The solution for that is to become more active and to run more calls iwth those medics to show them you know what you are doing.

Besides which, it does sound like you are getting crispy, and I'd look for another agency to run with

 

[patput]

I simply don't have more time to dedicate to their department than I do right now because of their 6 hour shift rule. As far as turning over care I don't mean make it into my call, but simply allow me to do more. The medics I run with are the same ones I have been around since I started. They know me and my skill set. Heck during my ride time for my class I was able to do more during a call and got complimented by two of that departments supervisors who saw me on calls.

I feel like moving on is where I am at, but I am concerned that my current director will just paint a bad picture for any other chief who calls him simply because I can't dedicate all my time to them.

Edit:

Also on a side note about responding from home - drivers are allowed to do so, however any med staff is not.

 

[Level1pedstech]

I volunteer with my local 911 ALS ambulance squad, but lately the fun is gone. They are a mostly paid staff with drivers, EMT-B's (which we currently have two of, myself included), and other attendants being the only volunteers.

When I first joined I was as active as time permitted, however they have a shift policy and forbid responding to the station from home (I can literally see it out my window as I type this). This makes it hard for me to put in any time because the minimum shift length is 6 hours. I'm a full time college student and I work full time as well.

The past few times I have been to the station have been pretty negative experiences. The director pulls me aside for a 15 minute conversation about how I'm not active enough. All the medics have a sour attitude, but it was that way from the beginning. It just isn't a friendly place and never really was. Every call I run with them I'm nothing more than the vitals person for our 30+ minute transports. I feel like all the medics just don't care, they are there as their job and could care less about me trying to further my skills.

I feel like I'm just wasting my time there, and I would like to move on to our fire department. I think that would solve the time constraint problems, if I'm available I can run the call if not so be it. I've always had good interactions with all of their members, far better than my current department. I am certain this director will blast me those as a reference and I fear that will be the end of my application. Any thoughts or ideas?

Sometimes you need to know when to say "Im done", looks like your getting close to that point. You need to make a decision based first on whats best for you and second whats best for those you serve as well as those you serve with. Work and school is where you need to be focused because they are important and will affect you far into the future. If you dont get this under controll your ability to act as a well trained competent provider could in a very short time begin to suffer. Being the best trained provider you can be is almost a full time job on its own. Having your head 100% in the game while working and going to school is something not everyone is capable of.

A few years ago I was in almost the same position and it got to the point where I had to make some hard decisions. My full time job was taking up almost 90 hours a week including my 3 hour daily commute. I was pulling 12 hour tech shifts in the ER at least a few times a month sometimes twice a week, I had a 48 hour per month duty shift commitment as a FF/EMT with my combination department and responded from home for my local all volunteer department. Trying to maintain the very high standards of training and physical fitness I set for myslf got to be almost impossible and I practice what I preach.

My decision to start cutting things loose came long before I lost my edge and had to be told I was not keeping up. By the time you get to the point that your not keeping up you have already started to damage your reputation and in this line of work reputation is HUGE,dont be that guy. You owe it to yourself those you work with and those you serve to be above average in all areas of training and education. These days the commitment is huge and even volunteers working with small departments are finding it hard to maintain standards in training that were unheard of ten years ago.

 

[Level1pedstech]

I volunteer with my local 911 ALS ambulance squad, but lately the fun is gone. They are a mostly paid staff with drivers, EMT-B's (which we currently have two of, myself included), and other attendants being the only volunteers.

When I first joined I was as active as time permitted, however they have a shift policy and forbid responding to the station from home (I can literally see it out my window as I type this). This makes it hard for me to put in any time because the minimum shift length is 6 hours. I'm a full time college student and I work full time as well.

The past few times I have been to the station have been pretty negative experiences. The director pulls me aside for a 15 minute conversation about how I'm not active enough. All the medics have a sour attitude, but it was that way from the beginning. It just isn't a friendly place and never really was. Every call I run with them I'm nothing more than the vitals person for our 30+ minute transports. I feel like all the medics just don't care, they are there as their job and could care less about me trying to further my skills.

I feel like I'm just wasting my time there, and I would like to move on to our fire department. I think that would solve the time constraint problems, if I'm available I can run the call if not so be it. I've always had good interactions with all of their members, far better than my current department. I am certain this director will blast me those as a reference and I fear that will be the end of my application. Any thoughts or ideas?

Honestly, responding from home is a policy that should be done away with, in my opinion. At the dept I volunteer with, if you're not at the station with me when we get a call, you're not going. I will not wait for volunteers to show up so they can play EMT.
And as for vitals taker... if there's a medic on the truck, it's their patient unless they turn over care to a lower license. And as a medic, I won't do that unless I KNOW the basic or intermediate I'm running with is competent. The solution for that is to become more active and to run more calls iwth those medics to show them you know what you are doing.

Besides which, it does sound like you are getting crispy, and I'd look for another agency to run with

Oh boy here we go,would you please for the benifit of those that respond fom home explain the experience or first hand knowledge you were drawing from when you came to the opinion that responding fom home should be done away with. After all we cant have a bunch of country fried rubes with jump kits jumping off the porch and running wild in the back woods of Mule Lick playing EMT now can we. We all know you get a better more "professional"outcome when you have people sitting at the station, even if they only run three calls a week.

Maybe Im missing something but if we were to do away with that policy would it not have a negative affect on some very sick people that from time to time need the services of their local all volunteer agency. These agencies are very common in rural America and have managed to take care of those they serve by having personnel run from home for years. Since these agencies often have very low call volumes its not feasible to have stations staffed 24/7/365 by paid or volunteer staff.

 

[grump]

Sounds like big city VS small town. Low call volume does not warrant somebody sitting around the hall when most responders can be at the station <5 min. Grump

 

[DrParasite]

There are two things you need to remember. when you agreed to be a member of this organization, you agreed to abide by their rules, and that means doing the required number of shifts, etc. If they require you to be in house, than that's the rule, don't think you should be entitled to any special privilege because you live locally.

Personally, I don't think responding from home should be permitted for routine calls, but I also understand (and agree with) the idea that if you are part of a slow agency (say, 1500 calls a year, maybe 5 every 24 hours), having people sitting around doing nothing (and not getting paid for it) is just a recipe for unhappy volunteers. after being down there for 3 shifts at 6 hours each, people are going to stop coming down. it's not like they have a paycheck justifying them spending their time down there.

As for jumping to the fire department, I say go for it. Call volumes typically are 1/3 or 1/4 of EMS, personalities are different, mentalities are different, and it's something different to do, while staying in the overall "emergency services" umbrella. But keep in mind, with most fire departments, you are expected to respond 24/7/365, days nights and weekends, while you are sleeping, assuming you are available, while in EMS (at least where you are now), if you do your 6 hour shift, you don't need to respond for anything else.

btw, I've been the guy who stays at the station (as both a paid guy and volunteer) while my partner responds from home. when you get that cardiac arrest, or severe diff breathing, or 90 year old who is unconscious or choking, and 1 minute goes by, 3 minutes goes by, 5 minutes go by, 7 minutes go by, and you haven't heard from him, and he isn't answering his phone, you get really nervous, and start reconsidering your feelings on people responding from home for EMS calls.

 

[patput]

There are two things you need to remember. when you agreed to be a member of this organization, you agreed to abide by their rules, and that means doing the required number of shifts, etc. If they require you to be in house, than that's the rule, don't think you should be entitled to any special privilege because you live locally.

Personally, I don't think responding from home should be permitted for routine calls, but I also understand (and agree with) the idea that if you are part of a slow agency (say, 1500 calls a year, maybe 5 every 24 hours), having people sitting around doing nothing (and not getting paid for it) is just a recipe for unhappy volunteers. after being down there for 3 shifts at 6 hours each, people are going to stop coming down. it's not like they have a paycheck justifying them spending their time down there.

As for jumping to the fire department, I say go for it. Call volumes typically are 1/3 or 1/4 of EMS, personalities are different, mentalities are different, and it's something different to do, while staying in the overall "emergency services" umbrella. But keep in mind, with most fire departments, you are expected to respond 24/7/365, days nights and weekends, while you are sleeping, assuming you are available, while in EMS (at least where you are now), if you do your 6 hour shift, you don't need to respond for anything else.

btw, I've been the guy who stays at the station (as both a paid guy and volunteer) while my partner responds from home. when you get that cardiac arrest, or severe diff breathing, or 90 year old who is unconscious or choking, and 1 minute goes by, 3 minutes goes by, 5 minutes go by, 7 minutes go by, and you haven't heard from him, and he isn't answering his phone, you get really nervous, and start reconsidering your feelings on people responding from home for EMS calls.

Upon joining I wasn't given a number of shifts I had to do, so there was nothing laid to to begin with. They knew I was a full time college student and that I work full time on top of that and it was understood that I would be there when I could be which wouldn't be all the time. They have a very small group of members that volunteers, all of whom have no other commitments (work, school, etc) so they put in upwards of 150 hours a month, but they also can sit their shifts at home doing as they please.

I don't see how waiting for me would be any different than a driver, I live far closer so therefore would be there much sooner. Driving it is honestly less than a minute door to door, heck I'd probably beat our medic to the rig. We do fall into the "slow agency" category for sure. We've had periods over 48 hours without a single call, other times where we are running nearly a call every two hours, but we generally are about 2 or 3 in a 24 hour period.

More than anything I'm frustrated that they are upset about the time I put in with no time being outlined when I joined, then when I'm there I get treated poorly and I'm basically a coat rack on calls.

 

[usalsfyre]

Oh boy here we go,would you please for the benifit of those that respond fom home explain the experience or first hand knowledge you were drawing from when you came to the opinion that responding fom home should be done away with. After all we cant have a bunch of country fried rubes with jump kits jumping off the porch and running wild in the back woods of Mule Lick playing EMT now can we. We all know you get a better more "professional"outcome when you have people sitting at the station, even if they only run three calls a week.

Maybe Im missing something but if we were to do away with that policy would it not have a negative affect on some very sick people that from time to time need the services of their local all volunteer agency. These agencies are very common in rural America and have managed to take care of those they serve by having personnel run from home for years. Since these agencies often have very low call volumes its not feasible to have stations staffed 24/7/365 by paid or volunteer staff.

Ya know I can't recall the last time I heard of a LODD POV accident involving responders who were at the station....

(I've been a respond from home volly, an in the station volly and a paid in the station provider. Responding from home is not a particularly good way of doing things)

 

[Level1pedstech]

Ya know I can't recall the last time I heard of a LODD POV accident involving responders who were at the station....

(I've been a respond from home volly, an in the station volly and a paid in the station provider. Responding from home is not a particularly good way of doing things)

Great for shock value but I really dont believe we have a large scale problem with LODD's or any other accidents involving volunteers responding POV.

I do see very real issues with giving operators that are in many cases not much older than 21 a large heavy vehicle and then after a brief EVAP class allow them to operate at a high rate of speed in heavily congested areas.

No amount of training can take the place of experience and at 21 most people even if they have been driving for 5 years just do not posess the skills needed to be safe operators. Not that they cant drive code its more will they know what to do and how to react if something goes wrong. With that said I would not form the opinion even with what I have seen first hand that no one should drive hot unless they are lets say 25.

As someone that puts in close to 500 miles a day in So Cal I can tell you there are many people that are well over 25 that have no business operting a motor vehicle even under normal conditions but thats more of a trucker/four wheeler complaint.

During my time in the fire service as well as in the 22 years working in my full time occupation I have worked as both a driver trainer and driver evaluator. I helped develop and implement the driving portion of our apparatus operator training pogram at my combination department and have always been an advocate for safe driving. Many departments and agencies are really walking on thin ice by not offering their people better quality driver training. There was a time several years ago when the insurance companies started cracking down that I thought we would see a big push for better training but it never really happened.

There are problems with POV response and it would not be my first choice if I was wearing the white shirt. There are also problems with people responding from stations and posting locations. For the most part the crews do a real good job out there and if we looked at the numbers I think they would agree

 

[ZombieEMT]

In my personal opinion, they are right to run a shift rule. The organization wants to get a truck out when its needed. Of course they would rather have a crew in house that can immediately respond instead of hoping someone will show up. You mention being able to see them from your house, does this mean you can provide the commitment but just do not want to be in the building? Otherwise the statement is not relevant.

This situation overall seems to be an issue that I have noticed many combined volunteer/paid departments have. They might not have interest in further your skills, I do not personally blame them. They get paid to do a job, does that include training and teaching volunteers? Is that part of their job description. Personally I think you are lucky to even have the opportunity. I know of many departments that have went paid and no longer accept volunteers at all.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Honestly, responding from home is a policy that should be done away with, in my opinion. At the dept I volunteer with, if you're not at the station with me when we get a call, you're not going. I will not wait for volunteers to show up so they can play EMT.
And as for vitals taker... if there's a medic on the truck, it's their patient unless they turn over care to a lower license. And as a medic, I won't do that unless I KNOW the basic or intermediate I'm running with is competent. The solution for that is to become more active and to run more calls with those medics to show them you know what you are doing.

Besides which, it does sound like you are getting crispy, and I'd look for another agency to run with

Interesting policies. Where I am at we can't NOT let people respond from home. Staffing the station 24/7 with people on duty would be prohibitively expensive with our 2-3 runs that go out a day. Though I agree that we shouldn't sit around and wait for volunteers if we have people on station. Currently we have to wait 5 minutes for a full crew if one is not on station before taking off. This to me is silly, get a first responder out the door, and then wait for personnel to get the second truck out.

As far as ALS/BLS runs, if it's a BLS run, and your people are of similar experience, the question I always ask is what is the Medic going to do for this patient that the Basic is not? If the answer is nothing, then let the Basics do some work! Let them manage the patient and call in the report. I don't know about where you are, but where we are, most of the runs here are BLS runs. That being said, there are some basics here that never want to be in charge of patient care and that fine if they are with a medic. A medic should never force a patient upon a basic.

I simply don't have more time to dedicate to their department than I do right now because of their 6 hour shift rule. As far as turning over care I don't mean make it into my call, but simply allow me to do more. The medics I run with are the same ones I have been around since I started. They know me and my skill set. Heck during my ride time for my class I was able to do more during a call and got complimented by two of that departments supervisors who saw me on calls.

I feel like moving on is where I am at, but I am concerned that my current director will just paint a bad picture for any other chief who calls him simply because I can't dedicate all my time to them.

Edit:

Also on a side note about responding from home - drivers are allowed to do so, however any med staff is not.

Well that's a stupid rule--you're going to be sitting there waiting for personnel anyways! I wonder if it has to do with insurance and the fact that drivers have more experience responding? Of course none of our personnel really ever respond with full lights and sirens to the station, heck, most people walk to it...

In my personal opinion, they are right to run a shift rule. The organization wants to get a truck out when its needed. Of course they would rather have a crew in house that can immediately respond instead of hoping someone will show up. You mention being able to see them from your house, does this mean you can provide the commitment but just do not want to be in the building? Otherwise the statement is not relevant.

This situation overall seems to be an issue that I have noticed many combined volunteer/paid departments have. They might not have interest in further your skills, I do not personally blame them. They get paid to do a job, does that include training and teaching volunteers? Is that part of their job description. Personally I think you are lucky to even have the opportunity. I know of many departments that have went paid and no longer accept volunteers at all.

I think the take home messages this. m We've all had those stints of time where we feel miserable and hate the conditions under which we work. Whether it be due to policy changes, leadership changes, personality issues or whatnot, there are always those weeks where we don't feel valued and don't enjoy what we do. Fortunately, for most of us, that feeling goes away. If you still feel this way a few months from now, look for other opportunities. On both my departments, both chiefs understand that those of us in school will be there more sporadically. I'm there a heck of a lot more in the summers and winters than I am in the spring or fall. There are times no one sees me for months at a time. But hour for hour, I put in comparable amounts of time when I can, even if it's mostly during by breaks and my nights and weekends.