On driving lights and sirens

[JPINFV]

L&S doesn't mean speeding. L&S doesn't mean unsafe.



What makes L&S unsafe are civilian drivers who are uneducated, and refuse to do the right and legal thing.

http://newsok.com/emsa-ambulance-driver-pleads-not-guilty-in-fatal-accident/article/3634201

:sad:

 

[Farmer2DO]

What makes L&S unsafe are civilian drivers who are uneducated, and refuse to do the right and legal thing.

That's the ONLY thing that makes them unsafe? Sorry, I have to disagree with you. So do the courts. There are many, many unsafe emergency driving practices out there, and to put all of the blame on civilian drivers is way out of line.

According to a JEMS article (http://www.emergencydispatch.org/articles/lightssirenliability1.htm) in some states the civilians don't even have to give up the right of way. In New Jersey, the emergency vehicle only has the right of way if the driver of the other vehicle voluntarily relinquishes it.

 

[Simusid]

12 minutes instead of 6 minutes? Who cares? Use the mutual aid, or put more ambulance crews on. The increased risk to life and limb just doesn't justify it. The first time one of your rigs is involved in an accident and someone is hurt or killed, and they were going red to "get back in service quicker", trust me, you and anyone else who approved of this decision will regret it.

You don't see the benefit of a 6 minute response to a cardiac arrest? REALLY?

My neighboring town took 40 minutes to respond to a chest pain call. I have a responsibility to provide the best care possible to residents of our town. I do whatever I can to be in service and if that means that I drive the speed limit with my lights on and if that goes against your world view then obviously there is nothing else I can add. If you feel so strongly about not being on the road I assume you never leave the station except for a call? No trips for food or errands?

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply. The two camps on this issue are clearly too far apart.

 

[Remeber343]

I'm here to work. Not run errands...

 

[Shishkabob]

That's the ONLY thing that makes them unsafe? Sorry, I have to disagree with you. So do the courts. There are many, many unsafe emergency driving practices out there, and to put all of the blame on civilian drivers is way out of line.

Wait, where did I ever say the "only" thing or "all the blame"? I didn't, ever. I said civilians make it unsafe, and I stand by that.

If every single civilian car stopped in the right lane when there was an emergency vehicle present, every single time, and did everything correctly as it's supposed to be, how many accidents would there be?


You can be going below the limit in the left lane, and some idiot will STILL pull the the left and slam their brakes in front of you.

http://newsok.com/emsa-ambulance-driver-pleads-not-guilty-in-fatal-accident/article/3634201

:sad:

Yes, his speed was excessive.


On the other hand... the civilian turned in front of the ambulance.

 

[JPINFV]

Let me approach you at twice the speed limit and we'll see how much time you have to recognize and appropriately respond to an emergency vehicle.

 

[Shishkabob]

Let me approach you at twice the speed limit and we'll see how much time you have to recognize and appropriately respond to an emergency vehicle.

Unless we turn a blind corner, one should ever be surprised enough by our presence to make any sudden moves and thus causing an accident... that's kind of the reason for the lights and siren. People aren't alert enough when they drive. They don't check their mirrors as often as they should, if ever. They blare their music with the windows up and look straight ahead, often tailgating the person in front. They don't give themselves enough time to react, let alone react safely. We try to mitigate that with better driving, but there's only so much you can do when people refuse to do their part.



I'm not excusing the speed, never have, never will. But the person DID turn infront of the ambulance. People seem to want to ignore that fact.




One of the main killers of motorcyclist is people turning left infront of them. They often claim the biker was speeding. The biker may have some fault due to the speeding, but fact is, the person still did an illegal lane change infront of oncoming traffic, causing the accident. If they pay attention, they can avoid the turn, avoid the accident, and it'd never be an issue.

 

[ffemt8978]

It sounds like FFEMT is using L/S more for the legal exemption from the speed limit than anything else, which would increase the safety factor. Of course my opinion is, in part, if you're going to speed, just speed.

That is part of it.

I just don't see the justification for transporting red unless your patient is critical. 15 minutes? Who cares? That's not going to make a difference in their care. If you are short ambulances to cover jobs during that time, then you need to put more on.

Tell that to the patient who is in pain. We're not short on ambulances...we're short on HOSPITALS within a close distance. So at what point does time start to make a difference in a patient's care? 30 minutes, an hour? I'm curious to know what you belive is an acceptable time limit for a patient to remain in pain without any treatment now that you brought it up.

Why pass them at all if it's not emergent? And they have pain, so lets go faster. Feel all the bumps. That's got to feel good and make their pain better.

And if you don't have the ability to treat their pain, then get the ability. Either intercept a paramedic that can, get your own paramedics with pain management capabilities, or fly them. Turning your lights on increases the risks to your crews and patient, every time.

Again, another member is assuming they know more about my area than they really do. You're assuming that the roads are rough. You're assuming we don't call for ALS for pain treatment (nearest ALS unit is 30 minutes away - with both of us driving code 3). You're assuming that getting our own paramedics is a simple process and that we haven't tried. (The voters have rejected the extra money it would cost.) You're assuming we always have a helicopter available.

 

[mycrofft]

This re-raises the urban versus rural or frontier watershed; but speed still kills in the country too.

FFEMT raised an excellent point, and it has been raised in forums outside this one. Where are the rural hospitals or clinics? I can tell you that those in Nebraska started disappearing in the Seventies and were pretty much gone, at least in my experience, by the mid Eighties. Part of that was the cost of operation versus shrinking populations (due to farm and credit failures), but regional statistical analyses did not support keeping a fifteen bed hospital open when Omaha or Lincoln or Cheyenne Wyoming were "so close".
Here in the Sierran foothills and such the smaller ones get bought, then "streamlined".
(Occupy THAT<_< ).