Okay so I wanted to know if anyone here has had to treat someone for toxic acid burns?

[huckleberry18]

We had a call today where they need the FD and Ambulance crews to go on, We arrive to find 3 boys laying on the groumd with strong pulses we noticed burns on them, One of the boys came to and he said that they were playing with toxic gases and one of them got a lighter out and it blew up. What and how would you treat these three boys with toxic chemical burns?

 

[luke_31]

Hazmat to start. Have the FD decon the patients and then start with ABCs. Field treatment would be mostly supportive with the hospital providing the more definitive care. If you can get what the chemical it was for the hospital but above all else, make sure you don't end up a patient also.

 

[huckleberry18]

Okay so Hazmat team then transport to hospital- What if you dont know the type of chemical that they had. If you dont know the chemical how would you know the symtoms if exposed?

 

[ERDoc]

Most toxins don't have a specific antidote. You just treat the symptoms (supportive care). My biggest concern in this case (after decon) would be airway compromise if they were all involved in an explosion. Were they playing with acids or gasses?

 

[luke_31]

Okay so Hazmat team then transport to hospital- What if you dont know the type of chemical that they had. If you dont know the chemical how would you know the symtoms if exposed?

Multiple patients all exhibiting same symptoms and no obvious causes would heighten the index of suspicion for a hazmat incident. Three patients with burns and unconscious would be a hazmat incident, if you don't ever know why you have multiple patients down, air on the side of caution and call it a possible hazmat incident.

 

[redundantbassist]

Cool story bro.

 

[huckleberry18]

I haven't learned anything about Hazmat like i said i am just a begginer at this.

 

[joshrunkle35]

I haven't learned anything about Hazmat like i said i am just a begginer at this.

Then, why not use this case as a reason to get yourself into a hazmat class?

Me: Park uphill and upwind. Call for additional resources (hazmat, fire). Try to ascertain the nature of the chemical. Does it present a danger to myself or my crew? Does it present a hazard by entering a certain area? What hazards are still presented to the victims? Can they leave the contamination area on their own or do they need to be extracted? Do I have the resources to safely extract them without presenting a hazard to myself or my crew? Can they be safely decontaminated via simple means without presenting new hazards to myself, my crew, the victims or the environment? (Like, can I rinse the chemicals off the victims with a garden hose over a child's sandbox or a tarp or something). Do I have the tools to treat and transport the patient? What equipment needs decontaminated from contact with the patients?

Obviously, many acids react with water, or water might just spread the effects around to harm new areas, so you probably wouldn't use water for your example.

 

[huckleberry18]

Then, why not use this case as a reason to get yourself into a hazmat class?

Me: Park uphill and upwind. Call for additional resources (hazmat, fire). Try to ascertain the nature of the chemical. Does it present a danger to myself or my crew? Does it present a hazard by entering a certain area? What hazards are still presented to the victims? Can they leave the contamination area on their own or do they need to be extracted? Do I have the resources to safely extract them without presenting a hazard to myself or my crew? Can they be safely decontaminated via simple means without presenting new hazards to myself, my crew, the victims or the environment? (Like, can I rinse the chemicals off the victims with a garden hose over a child's sandbox or a tarp or something). Do I have the tools to treat and transport the patient? What equipment needs decontaminated from contact with the patients?

Obviously, many acids react with water, or water might just spread the effects around to harm new areas, so you probably wouldn't use water for your example.

Okay well the class I am in is Firefighter I & II and there is a Hazmat course.

 

[joshrunkle35]

What type? Awareness? Ops? Technician? Level I, Level II?

 

[joshrunkle35]

I have not taken hazmat for fire service, but I did take my Hazwoper.

 

[huckleberry18]

What type? Awareness? Ops? Technician? Level I, Level II?

Its a Level I&II its a combined class i can earn more certification then all firefighters in my state

I am also taking a Hazmat class its a new program we just started, In my state

 

[Bullets]

Obviously, many acids react with water, or water might just spread the effects around to harm new areas, so you probably wouldn't use water for your example.

So while basic chemistry shows this to be true, the way hazmat is taught, for decon, the solution to pollution is dilution. During gross and technical decon, big water is the answer to all your problems.

But otherwise, agree with everyone else. Call your local Hazmat teams

 

[CANMAN]

So while basic chemistry shows this to be true, the way hazmat is taught, for decon, the solution to pollution is dilution. During gross and technical decon, big water is the answer to all your problems.

But otherwise, agree with everyone else. Call your local Hazmat teams

Spot on here, unless you're able to identify an specific water reactive agent via a placard or something. As everyone has said call HAZMAT, and gross decon before involving yourself.

Kids playing with "toxic gases" huh? I would be curious as to what they got ahold of. If your department/HAZMAT team has a HAZMAT I.D. computer, and they can get a sample, that is a quick way to identify the agent.

 

[EMDispatch]

Kids playing with "toxic gases" huh? I would be curious as to what they got ahold of. If your department/HAZMAT team has a HAZMAT I.D. computer, and they can get a sample, that is a quick way to identify the agent.

There's a chance a hazmat team your calling won't have a system like that. Spectrometers run $20,000-$100,000. Plus if you start to factor in response and setup time it may not be worth the delay to identify the specific chemical over standard decon and transport.

 

[STXmedic]

There's a chance a hazmat team your calling won't have a system like that. Spectrometers run $20,000-$100,000. Plus if you start to factor in response and setup time it may not be worth the delay to identify the specific chemical over standard decon and transport.

HazMat grant money gets thrown around like its nothing, so those systems aren't all that uncommon. Our HazMat team has more toys than they know what to do with, and have never paid a penny for it.

 

[EMDispatch]

It depends heavily by area. The feds dropped a lot of money post 9/11 on hazmat and many agencies simply couldn't or can't sustain their teams and equipment as the funds dried up 5 years later. If you're in a metro area with a career team you have a good chance of an FTIR, But outside of a metro area, you probably aren't going to have one readily available. While fire departments are keen on spending, the high risk low frequency stuff often gets taken out first as budget items.

 

[DesertMedic66]

Playing with toxic gases and one of them lit a lighter?

Considering it is 3 boys my likely guesses are more of the common flammable gases/liquids (natural gas, propane, gasoline, aerosol products). Not quite sure I would start HAZMAT immediately. However I would talk to the other kid and look around on scene.