Off Duty Skills

Here in SC if you happen to stop at an accident and render aid at a basic level, no matter what level you are, you are covered under the Good Samaritan Act, however if you start doing invaise things then you better be acting under your med control, just to be safe. I live in the county I work for, and I am the medical director of my VFD, and even thought I am a medic when I am on the BRT I can only function as a first responder until the ambulance arrives, and then at the discretion of the medic on the truck, I can operate as a medic and assist with ALS care, but again that is only if the medic on the transport unit needs me to help (i.e. cardiac arrest, multiple trauma patients, severe respiratory patient, etc).

Now I am currently trying to get more people to join my VFD that are EMT's so that we can apply to the state of a BLS/ALS first reponder license, but we need 2-3 more EMT's to join for us to consider it.
 
Summit said:
If a Dr. from Hospital A is visiting his wife in Hospital B, and then someone collapses in the parking lot as he drives in, do you think the Dr is just going to call 911 then just stand there and watch?

Who freaking cares what letters are after you name. Nobody is telling you to break the law. ARE YOU A GOOD SAMARITAN OR NOT?
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When you are older and have enough experience to make an educated response then come ask me who cares. And it is breaking the law to practice without a Lic.
 
Summit said:
ARE YOU A GOOD SAMARITAN OR NOT?
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You need to read the Good Samaritan Act. It protects you from Criminal law not Civil Law. You can still loose everything to a Law Suit.
 
Physicians can work at any facility, it is not the license it is the privileges for coverage for medical malpractice and authority to cover them. As a ER Manager, I am was very familiar with the accreditation of getting license personal covered. Most hospitals, usually have a "disaster" clause to allow non-staff physicians to be covered under their "umbrella" clause.

Physicians are licensed to practice medicine on their own license in their State. They do not have to have a facility or even be associated with one, to practice, as long as they want to assume the risks. This is however is different from those that don't have a license to practice medicine, unless you have specific protocols or being directed by medical control with authority in that area that is giving direction, you should work at a first responder level. Thus, basically as a first aider.

Unless, your service describes or has protocols in regards to any ALS tx, for "off duty" then you are acting and performing on your own accord. Then one could be held responsible for practicing medicine without a license as well. It is even illegal to carry IV fluids, needles, etc.. off duty without a prescription (this is a Federal Law read it on any medical equipment). Albeit, I doubt any D.A. would waste their time.. unless there is other circumstances.

Little about the Good Samaritan Law... was basically introduced from an article in Reader's Digest. This article describes that "physicians" were not stopping at accidents. Ironically, there had not been any reported law suits, until after the article was published. Like others stated, it will not protect you from civil litigation, but would be hard to push..

R/r 911
 
I wish I new how to play golf! I choose to be on EMSLife, that's more interesting! Myspace is cool too!
 
Well my final opinion on this- if you are off duty and you decide to practice without being under your medical control's authority, you better have a good lawyer on retainer-this is the most litigious society in the world!
 
jeepmedic said:
When you are older and have enough experience to make an educated response then come ask me who cares. And it is breaking the law to practice without a Lic.
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Wow, I was fired up yesterday. I had an "interesting" day yesterday. Sorry for that tone in my post. It wasn't warranted

But like I said before (in the post where I was not fired up) there are circumstances where I will stop and help.

Like I said, I'm not going to practice without authority. I'm not about to carry an IV kit in my car and start it on the first dehydrated person I see. Acting on the FR level is acceptable and legal. You don't need a medical director to hold c-spine, perform CPR, or control bleeding as a good samaritan. Heck, I don't think I've ever mentioned I was an EMT. It isn't necessary. "I know first aid. Can I help you?"

jeepmedic said:
You need to read the Good Samaritan Act. It protects you from Criminal law not Civil Law. You can still loose everything to a Law Suit.
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Yes. An anecdote: a good friend of mine, an old paramedic, was actually sued because he had a big star of life on his bumper as he slowly drove past an accident and didn't stop. He had no duty to act, but someone wrote down his license plate and sued him anyways. They did NOT win the case. He still had to pay a lawyer.

You can sue anyone for anything. But there is a difference between suing and winning. However, it sucks for you either way and the lawyers always always win.

I choose to limit how I live in fear of the boobs and theirs lawyers. I don't have a star of life on my car almost solely because of my friend's story. But like I said before there are circumstances where I will stop and help because under those circumstances, telling myself that I was protecting myself from lawsuits wouldn't have helped me slept.

Another anecdote: my father was an emergency doc and I remember when I was 6 years old we were driving across a long stretch of desert highway we came across a car in the median with the driver ejected. There was nobody helping. My dad pulled over and went to help and had my mom drive me and and herself off to a service station 20 miles down the road to call 911 (no cellphones back then).

Despite my tone earlier, there is no moral absolute correct answer here. I know what is right for me and my morals balanced with the risks I'm willing to take.
 
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I know tht if you guys stop out of your territory to render care, you would have the best intentions in mind. However... some of the worst things ever known to man have happened out of good intentions. Look at Asoma Bin Ladin. He had good intentions to his country to fly plains into our WTC and Pentigon killing thousands of people. See what I mean? Be carefull of your good intentions!
 
trauma1534 said:
I wish I new how to play golf! I choose to be on EMSLife, that's more interesting! Myspace is cool too!
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Golf is simple.
1- Hit the Ball
2- Drink Beer
3- repeat.

If you loose said ball just drop another one where you think it should be and hit another one.
 
jeepmedic said:
Golf is simple.
1- Hit the Ball
2- Drink Beer
3- repeat.

If you loose said ball just drop another one where you think it should be and hit another one.
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I like co-ed naked golf better!!
 
KInd of cold this time of year though.
 
trauma1534 said:
I know tht if you guys stop out of your territory to render care, you would have the best intentions in mind. However... some of the worst things ever known to man have happened out of good intentions. Look at Asoma Bin Ladin. He had good intentions to his country to fly plains into our WTC and Pentigon killing thousands of people. See what I mean? Be carefull of your good intentions!
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So... if I stop to help someone out of good intentions instead of a state duty to act law... I'm supporting the terrorists. I always knew I was somehow responsible for 9-11. I think the FBI is knocking at my door to take me away to Gitmo! ;) :-p
 
Summit said:
So... if I stop to help someone out of good intentions instead of a state duty to act law... I'm supporting the terrorists. I always knew I was somehow responsible for 9-11. I think the FBI is knocking at my door to take me away to Gitmo! ;) :-p
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Negative! You are not supporting the terrorists! Come on man! That was an example of someone's deffinition of good intentions.

Now, to address the state duty to act law, here goes.

If your truck, or your agancy has been dispatched to a call and you sign enroute, you now have a duty to act!!! If you stop at your own will at another agency's call, and you are out of your medical direction's jurisdiction, then you are out of line. You are operating on your own risk for whatever may come of it.

Use common sence!! Come on man!!!
 
I think you missed the two winky faces ;) and the sticking out of the tongue :-p in my last past

thats internetese to indicate my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek on that post... i was merely making light of your analogy which I thought really didn't apply to this situation. it was just sarcasm
no worries!
 
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Summit said:
I think you missed the two winky faces ;) and the sticking out of the tongue :-p in my last past

thats internetese to indicate my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek on that post... i was merely making light of your analogy which I thought really didn't apply to this situation. it was just sarcasm
no worries!
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Summit, now you being ugly! Come on now, behave and act pretty! :-P
 
trauma1534 said:
Summit, now you being ugly! Come on now, behave and act pretty! :-P
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now you got that hang of it! :)

unfortunately, my uglyness is a condition caused by just being naturally ugly (or possibly dropped on my face a lot when little...) *sniff* my feelings are crushed!!!! ;)
 
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Summit said:
If a Dr. from Hospital A is visiting his wife in Hospital B, and then someone collapses in the parking lot as he drives in, do you think the Dr is just going to call 911 then just stand there and watch?

Who freaking cares what letters are after you name. Nobody is telling you to break the law. ARE YOU A GOOD SAMARITAN OR NOT?
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I think this is a sticking point in some of our perspectives.

I don't think anyone is saying that you should run around with a full ALS kit... THAT can and will get you into trouble. If you have some ALS stuff around for yourself (hangovers) and your immediate family... well, that is YOUR personal choice. You probably AREN'T covered to provide ALS-level care off-duty, because you are doing invasive procedures.

If, however, you have a decent BLS-level first aid kit - you are acting as a "good samiritan" and it is difficult to say you killed someone because you stopped and applied a bandage or even, perhaps, a c-collar.

I think many of us are willing to stop and aid at the BLS level. Espicially since I have a EMS license plate and a squad plate on the front of my car... I make an effort to stop unless there is help already there... Why? because I don't want to get in trouble for failure to stop at an incident (I'm not 100% sure if they can cite me for it... I've heard different stories from different cops).

Jon
 
I think that some of the biggest points to consider here are..

* You may get in trouble if you're outside of your county. In some states, this is not an issue. California is one of them. I'm certified by one county, but if I'm operating at a BLS level in another county, that's ok. The basic BLS protocols are just National Registry stuff anyway.

* The Good Sam act may or may not protect you. Research (and a few lawyers) has taught me that lawsuits against EMS providers are actually fairly uncommon. As DT4EMS has mentioned before, the leading cause of lawsuits against EMS providers is vehicle collisions.

* Lawyers farkin' suck rocks. Fortunately for me, a longtime friend & co-worker just passed the state Bar exam and is now a lawyer. Free lawyers are a lot more useful. Hopefully I'll never need to call him for it.
 
in Pennsy as it is in Jersey you have a "Duty to act" meaning you are supposed to stop and provide care to the level of your training and equipment. If you have no Equipment, then triage or C-Spine is all you can really do. Jon can tell you how much equipment i have, well most of what i have. I now have a fully stocked SAR bag

and Carbon isn't to far from my hunting property in Tioga

PAstudent said:
Hi guys,

I'm currently an EMT-B student with my test approaching this spring. My friend was looking at the bags on galls and I thought of a question. In Pennsylvania, what can basics do off duty skill wise? Can we insert oral and nasal airways? Can we use a BVM? Can we help with nitro and epis? I think I heard someone say no glucose....

I'm just wondering what I'll be able to due when im not working.

Thanks
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I just provide first aid. No meds whatsoever. I hold head stabilization in MVA's, i stabalize broken limbs, I maintain airways and tell responding units whats up. Thats it. I don't even do full assessments, just abbreviated quickies to move things along.
 
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