Off-Duty Response

[Tigger]

They pass a law against it?
Let me google a bit. Used ot be law in Calif, per my former bro in law with the LAPD.
====================
OK here's one website:
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/police-radio-scanner-apps-thats-not-10-4-123172
As he says, fifty states, fifty (and more) laws. Some restrict use of a mobile scanner to use in the commission of a crime (watch out of freelancing is illegal where you are), others forbid it without a FCC license, etc etc.

Law or no law, if someone sued you and it was discovered that you drove around with a scanner and equipment and without sanction from your FD or whatever, then the GOod Sam defense might be challenged.

Agreed.

I was not aware that some states restrict the use of a scanner in a vehicle, it is certainly acceptable here.

 

[mycrofft]

...and scanners are ok in your house.

Used to be a hot item to burglarize from Radio Shacks.

 

[CFal]

When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.

My volly service is almost never in uniform, I was told we were getting t shirts "in a couple of weeks" a couple of weeks ago, but like everything, will probably get a couple of months. I still try to look respectable most of the time though.

 

[Achilles]

I notice we are talking about scanners. I'll just post one quick thing regarding them. Around here the state of Michigan I believe is switching to the 800 MHz radios. The reading I did on it on Motorola's website shows that it's encrypted. And there's a bunch of other cool stuff with them too and bla bla bla.
I'm not a fan of listening to a police scanner and showing up at medical calls. However, I've done it for commercial fires twice (yes I keep a safe distance, uphill/ upwind) one was a pretty fire. Ended up talking to a fireboat captain who was drafting w/ two LDH hoses, as well as a pumper with one.

 

[RangerDave]

Hi, new to this forum, but I wanted to chime in on one of the earlier comments in this thread. Somebody mentioned the app for Silicon valley for cpr. Its called Pulse Point, basically you open it on your phone and can tell it what you are trained to do(the only one that really matters right now though is CPR certification) and then if dispatch wants, they can activate it and it will alert anybody that has this on their cell phone and is near to a CPR needed call. It then directs you to the site in the hope that CPR can be initiated sooner than it would be if they have to wait for the ambulance. In theory I think its a good idea, not sure if its used at all or anything though. Figured I'd chime in about it though.

 

[medic17]

I suppose you could look at that way. At least when you call 911, the bros showing up are generally wearing a uniform and have equipment and means to get you to the hospital. This in contrast to some stranger showing up in street clothes with nothing.

In my country for the past 10-20 years there has been a department in my national EMS that responds without uniform and may or may not have equipment and dos not have means to transport. I remember an incident that went something like this: "5y/o F Conscious unknown trauma." The first responder (a medic that was on call to respond off base) came in with no equipment at all. Although they Almost always have some BLS eqipment. Thank god in this particular situation the girl was fine and did not need treatment or transport (the BLS rig came about a minuet later).

 

[med109]

Lets say that you are off duty and for the sake of this scenario you have a scanner in your personal vehicle. Your state does not have a duty to act law and you are not in uniform. You hear a call go out for a man down, not breathing. You recognize the address as less than 1 block away inside a fast food restaurant. The dispatcher did not indicate for units to stage.

The local FD and EMS agencies are busy today and you know that the units dispatched are probably 10 or more minutes away.

Do you go to the fast food restaurant?

In short, yes I probably would, but for a bunch of different reasons.

First, our department gets paged out, and I always have my pager with me, (if they need a second crew, I will be the one to respond 9 times out of 10). Even if we don't have our pager on, we get all of our calls text messaged to our cell phones. We live in a town of 1200, and have 11 people working EMS. If the page is for a man down not breathing, and I walk in wearing jeans and a tee shirt, and the patient says "no thanks I will wait for the guys in the ambulance" I will gladly leave him alone. Otherwise I am sure said patient or bystanders will be happy I responded

Our department runs and combo of basic crews or ALS crews. So the responding crew might be BLS, and chances are they will be calling me to help anyways, cause 75% of the time I am the only ALS available. If the man is not breathing, the call will require more people than the driver and EMT that are responding. They would be very happy to see another EMT already on scene, even if the person is wearing jeans and a tee-shirt. Our uniform is pretty much jeans and a tee-shirt anyways, it does have our department name on it, but jeans and t-shirt just the same.

Our responding crew has 5 minutes to get to the ambulance, then however long it takes to get on scene. There is alot I can do in those 5-10 minutes that will speed up patient care. Begin CPR if it hasnt been started, get history, or interview bystanders, make sure the area is clear for the gurney, ect.

One thing to keep in mind, if you do render aid, YOU may have to transport. We recently had a call for a lady in anaphylaxis, the responding crew was BLS, but had called for ALS mutual aid. They got on scene, and one of the bystanders was a Dr, she was screaming that the patient needed EPI (she was freaking out), the crew explained they couldn't give EPI, but would monitor the airway, load the patient ect, and another unit was responding to give epi. She said well I am a Dr. give me the epi and I will give it to her. The crew said that would be fine, but then SHE would have to ride to the hospital with them. She changed her mind lol. A medic from a neighboring agency walked up and gave the patient the epi, and was willing to ride in, but the ALS rig had arrived so he didn't need to.

So remember if you respond to a call just to be helpful, you still have to give that patient to someone that is at your level of care or higher!

 

[DrParasite]

When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.

you would think so.... however, the definition of "uniform" can vary from a squad jacket to t-shirts and jeans and a bat belt to a professional shirts and pants combination. At my local EMS agency if they show up in an ambulance, with a squad jacket, shorts and sandles, it's considered a uniform. scary.....

Think again, I have and will continue to tell people that I am fine and will be waiting for the ambulance.

Fair enough. I might keep you company, or I might get back in my go and continue on my way. If you don't want my help, than I'm not going to force you to accept it.

The last off duty response I did was what I thought was an overturned vehicle on the highway, with no PD, fire or EMS o/s. there was a tow truck that was blocking the roadway. lots of bystanders offering to help (and already removed her from the car), but she's altered due to unknown reason. I was heading out to dinner not in my response area in a short sleeve button down shirt, shorts, and flip flops, and thankfully I had my ID and badge from my job (which totally sold me on issuing badges for EMS personnel), so when the cops arrived and told everyone "move along, nothing to see here", I showed him my badge and ID, and asked him if he wanted me to go. He said "let me know what you need." And of course, when the AHJ showed up, took report and care of the patient, I went on my way.

You might tell someone you are waiting for the ambulance, but sometimes the best thing you can do is be a calming influence (to the patient AND the crowd), perform a quick assessment, and tell the injured person that help is on the way.

 

[medictinysc]

I so agree with you on this.

 

[mediclife]

I agree, if it didn't happen in front of me I wouldn't stop.

 

[Steveb]

I think I would safely head to the restaurant. Since I'd be protected under the good Samaritan act. So I would have nothing to worry about as long as I stay in my scope of practise. Also I would just go back to the fundamental basics while I wait for EMS since I wouldn't really have any use full equipment.

 

[ms93]

Here's a bit of a twist. I went on a police ride along a while back and although we did not respond to anything medical, I wonder now if it would have been a good idea to help if something had come up. Naturally, I would have jumped in but I wonder then what the expectations are in terms of the good samaritan law. I wonder if the officer would have expected me to help or told me wait for responding on duty EMS personnel. I'd like to think that most EMS want to help people even when they're off duty. We just don't introduce ourselves as EMS workers.

Anyone want to chime in?

 

[CFal]

In short, yes I probably would, but for a bunch of different reasons.

First, our department gets paged out, and I always have my pager with me, (if they need a second crew, I will be the one to respond 9 times out of 10). Even if we don't have our pager on, we get all of our calls text messaged to our cell phones. We live in a town of 1200, and have 11 people working EMS. If the page is for a man down not breathing, and I walk in wearing jeans and a tee shirt, and the patient says "no thanks I will wait for the guys in the ambulance" I will gladly leave him alone. Otherwise I am sure said patient or bystanders will be happy I responded

Our department runs and combo of basic crews or ALS crews. So the responding crew might be BLS, and chances are they will be calling me to help anyways, cause 75% of the time I am the only ALS available. If the man is not breathing, the call will require more people than the driver and EMT that are responding. They would be very happy to see another EMT already on scene, even if the person is wearing jeans and a tee-shirt. Our uniform is pretty much jeans and a tee-shirt anyways, it does have our department name on it, but jeans and t-shirt just the same.

Our responding crew has 5 minutes to get to the ambulance, then however long it takes to get on scene. There is alot I can do in those 5-10 minutes that will speed up patient care. Begin CPR if it hasnt been started, get history, or interview bystanders, make sure the area is clear for the gurney, ect.

One thing to keep in mind, if you do render aid, YOU may have to transport. We recently had a call for a lady in anaphylaxis, the responding crew was BLS, but had called for ALS mutual aid. They got on scene, and one of the bystanders was a Dr, she was screaming that the patient needed EPI (she was freaking out), the crew explained they couldn't give EPI, but would monitor the airway, load the patient ect, and another unit was responding to give epi. She said well I am a Dr. give me the epi and I will give it to her. The crew said that would be fine, but then SHE would have to ride to the hospital with them. She changed her mind lol. A medic from a neighboring agency walked up and gave the patient the epi, and was willing to ride in, but the ALS rig had arrived so he didn't need to.

So remember if you respond to a call just to be helpful, you still have to give that patient to someone that is at your level of care or higher!

I hate protocols that say basics can't give epi, it's not rocket surgery, I've had protocols in 3 different states, one says I can give it, one says I can call med control for it and the other I can't give it.

 

[EMDispatch]

We get into a weird variation of this where I work. The comm center has an official unit we take out on training, etc. The vehicle is equipped with an AED, BLS bag, and a water rescue throw line. It's a personal decision to respond, as we have no policy per se. The obvious differences being we have equipment and are usually considered "on duty" in the vehicle.

 

[Mariemt]

In my town, yes. I respond off duty quite often to unresponsive etc if I'm close, but it is my squad I'm working with. My pager picks up other towns traffic and I guess if they were in front of my I would do something, but I wouldn't go searching for their patient. I would guess they have their own responders

 

[EMT856]

Yes, I would go to the restaurant. I dont care what anyone says,as an EMT, it is my job to help those who need it. If the man died, I would feel responsible in a way if I didnt even try to help him.

 

[Fire51]

I have lived in a small town and work on a volunteer FD and there are plenty of times people have showed up on calls that have been down the street because they know the person that have called for help. In a big city it can be different everyone doesn't know everyone so you don't really know what's going on, it's more likely in a big city to walk in to a dangerous situation then in a small town ( not saying it won't happen). So I think there are exceptions to the question.