"Obama Care" versus wishful thinking

ExpatMedic0

MS, NRP
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Whats really on my mind is how will it effect us and EMS? It seems like is a good thing for our profession correct?
 

Vetitas86

Forum Lieutenant
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My vote would go toward more paperwork and bureaucracy vs being a good thing. Granted, I could be wrong.
 

homingmissile

Forum Crew Member
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That is PRECISELY what you're doing, and in your own words:
Just looking at my words, I'm inclined to agree with you, but if I only do it for spite then I'd automatically take an opposing stance on every issue wouldn't I?

Granted, I just so happen to end up throwing up my hands at almost everything the GOP does these days but I don't deliberately find my way to disagreeing with every single platform they have.
 

Veneficus

Forum Chief
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Midlevel vs physician lowers costs. There's still a need for physicians to supervise and perform advanced procedure, etc. So it remains free market. Allow midlevels to practice with less oversight while still remaining tethered to a physician, especially in rural and underserved areas, and it becomes more feasible.

It would be more affordable than it is, and I think that would be a start if nothing else. Like I said, its a flawed system. It's my opinion that a completely open and free system would add to the shortage of primary care specialists, among other things.
Hate to break it to you, but midlevel providers actually add to the cost.

It doesn't eliminate the need for a doctor and then you end up paying 2 people.

If you look around the world, places without "mid-level" providers actually have lower healthcare costs than anyone who does.

On top of that you get a lesser level of care from a mid-level provider.

Then you must look at the reality of how those providers are utilized.

They are not operating where there are no physicians. They are operating in established facilities and adding an extra level of expense that can be billed for.

The solution to the whole problem is to add more physicians, not by trying to make up for the lack of them.

The good folks over at the AMA and residency directors don't like that idea because the more doctors you have, the lower the earnings for doctors.

See where the problem really is now?
 

Martyn

Forum Asst. Chief
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Lets face it, it's all about money. Something HAS to be done regarding health care provision in the USA. 'Sorry but this doctor won't see you because he/she doesn't accept your insurance' or 'Yes, don't worry, your insurance covers everything' followed by a bill for $XXX a few weeks later. The whole system as it stands is corrupt, unfair, complicated...you name it. Why are US citizens against reform? Personally I don't think they are, it's the medical companies, insurance companies and possibly the doctors. Why? Because they will be losing out on their million dollar salaries etc. A vision: a low fee is taken directly out of each wage check, and this means EVERYONE'S wage check. In return you will be able to go to ANY emergency room, see ANY doctor, get dental treatment, hell, even get cheaper medications on prescription. Wouldn't that be great? Just think, no more losing $XXX per pay check, or having to do at least 1-2 days extra overtime a month to make sure you can cover the insurance cost. Just think!!!

Hey, guess what? That sounds just like the UK version.
How much National Insurance you pay

The amount and type of National Insurance contributions you pay depend on whether you're employed or self-employed and how much you earn. The rates shown below are for the 2011-12 tax year.
If you're employed


If you're employed you pay Class 1 National Insurance contributions. The rates are:
  • if you earn more than £139 a week and up to £817 a week, you pay 12 per cent of the amount you earn between £139 and £817
  • if you earn more than £817 a week, you also pay 2 per cent of all your earnings over £817
You pay a lower rate if you're a member of your employer's contracted-out pension scheme.
Your contributions are deducted from your wages by your employer.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ni/intro/basics.htm

So lets play with some figures here: lets say you earn £500 a week. Based on the above that works out £43.32 contribution per week. Wow, this is amazing, and that covers medical, dental and also part goes toward a pension, fantastic. Now lets convert to dollars and see: £500 is $793.50 per week, hmm, not bad I guess. which means the NI equivalent (remember £43.32) is $68.75 A WEEK!!! Holy moly, that means I personally would be saving at least $100 a month and I get to go to the doctor, any doctor, when I need to. I can get those bad teath pulled and some o' them fancy dentures. I can get cheaper meds on prescriptions, oh wow!!!

WAKE UP AMERICA
IT'S TIME FOR CHANGE!!!
 

Linuss

Forum Chief
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You may save $100 a month but it would cost me over $300 more a month then I pay now for my insurance.

No thanks. I'd rather have that $3600 more a year.



No one i know is against some type of reform... But let's do reform the majority agree on, shall we?
 
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BeachMedic

Forum Lieutenant
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"No one i know is against some type of reform... But let's do reform the majority agree on, shall we?"

Good look getting the majority to agree on anything.

If Obama made a statement like, "Killing puppies for sport is bad!"; the GOP would immediately start complaining about constitutional rights being taken away by the evil President.

Anyhoo, I highly doubt that the majority of Americans have read the 2000+ page Health Care Reform Bill. No one even knows what they are arguing about. They are arguing about tag lines from the media/politicians.

"Death Panels"? lol

We all know that change needs to happen. Will it in any significant manner that is beneficial to everyone? Guess you can say that my glass is half empty in regards to things like that. It's all up to the people with a lot of money to decide; and typically, they don't have a lot of money because they genuinely cared about the general populace.
 

homingmissile

Forum Crew Member
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No one i know is against some type of reform... But let's do reform the majority agree on, shall we?
What kind of reform might that be? You've given us your problems with Obama's plan, what are your suggestions?

As it is we have millions of uninsured people, 16.3% of Americans according to the 2010 census. What do we do about them?

Someone here made an observation about pimped out cars in the ghetto. That's a legitimate gripe. <_< Some of these people really need to make better decisions on how they spend their money. That's a problem at the bottom of the issue.
The problem at the top is that having a completely for-profit healthcare system can't cover everyone. What about the ones deemed 'un-insurable' by the companies? That's another way of saying that person is a "bad investment".

Americans recoil and grip their wallets when they see the words 'socialism' and 'communism' because they don't want their money going to someone else. And, honestly, I have to admit that's a Right we have. :unsure:

But the problem is that we all imagine ourselves making piles and achieving the Dream when it's just not realistically possible for everyone to do so. A 100% capitalist society can't work forever and more people are realizing this, American founding ideals be damned.
 

Chan

Forum Crew Member
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It's going to the SCOTUS next week. Well, initial arguments are being heard next week.

Problem is that we need a shift in society to make the mandate work. Lower cost? You have to lower medical school costs. Doctors charge so much because of the pain and suffering of 300k of debt they get when they obtain their license.

Ontop of that, the administration needs to admit that this is a tax increase already.
 

Veneficus

Forum Chief
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You have to lower medical school costs. Doctors charge so much because of the pain and suffering of 300k of debt they get when they obtain their license.
I find the simple solution is not to go to a school that costs that much.

Then when nobody shows up at the institution that does charge the outrageous tuition prices of $50k plus per year, that school will either lower prices or go out of business.

Simple really.
 

Chan

Forum Crew Member
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I find the simple solution is not to go to a school that costs that much.

Then when nobody shows up at the institution that does charge the outrageous tuition prices of $50k plus per year, that school will either lower prices or go out of business.

Simple really.
Yeah and what happens when you have a wait list of years to attend a public school? Have even less medical personelle and increase cost of care even more?

The whole system is a mess really.
 

Veneficus

Forum Chief
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Yeah and what happens when you have a wait list of years to attend a public school? Have even less medical personelle and increase cost of care even more?

The whole system is a mess really.
Or go outside the US, you might find the education is better and cheaper.
 

phideux

Forum Captain
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If you read the Obama healthcare monstrosity, you really see how little it has to do with healthcare, and is just another monster bill with tons and tons of pork thrown in it.
Why does a healthcare bill authorize the hiring of thousands of additional IRS agents?
Why does a healthcare bill authorize the purchase of thousands of shotguns for the IRS?
Why does a healthcare bill make any and every transaction over $599.00, business or personal, generate a 1099???

I just bought a new living room set, the first new furniture I have ever bought, according to Obamacare, even though I paid tax on it when I bought it, I need to send a 1099 to the furniture guy, and he now owes the IRS their cut.
I sold a used car, an old beater, but it was for over $599.00. Now the guy I sold it to is supposed to send me a 1099 on it. I paid sales tax on this car when I bought it, property taxes every year, the guy I sold it to paid sales tax and property taxes on it, but we still gotta pay the Obamacare tax.

Obamacare is a joke.

We have healthcare in this country. If you call for an ambulance, even if you don't have insurance, we will come pick you up, no matter what the complaint, and take you to the hospital. We will give you treatment along the way. If you can't or don't pay, it will get written off, you get your free ambulance ride. Once we get you to the ER, they will treat you and take care of you. If you don't have insurance they will still treat you, if you can't or won't pay, they will cover it with a MIAP program, or eventually write it off down the line. You will get seen and treated, even if you are in this country illegally. they will treat you, care for you, and they aren't allowed to turn you in.

Our Government is broken, we don't need this monstrous bill.
 

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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OK someone post the "OBAMA CARE MANIFESTO" link.

I was a street EMT for three years, took care of inmates for eighteen, and was one case manager for a county's medically indigent care system for over two and a half years.

What prompted me to start this was an interview on public radio with two residents of a rural town decrying "Obamacare". The interviewer asked one about it, he was hale and healthy, and his point wasn't affecting health care but neutralizing any measure from Obama, the duly elected president, his cabinet (all approved by Congress), and enough Congressional members, at least quietly, to avoid an easy repeal.
The second, being reminded she no longer had insurance due to divorce and etc., quietly decided national health care was a good idea.

There's the divide for you. People LIKE it if they need it. People HATE it (even though it hasn't even really started yet) because they are healthy own have insurance, don't want to fund it, and they hate the idea of Barack Obama in the White House.

Eventually, every one of us will need this sort of help unless we all die young and suddenly. Trust me, that won't happen to the vast majority.
THEN what will YOU do? (I suppose then our kids and grandkids will refer to us as Lefties when we want and need a slice of what we are paying so-called "Big Medicine"", as well as the renamed successors of Halliburton and Blackwater and other hogs at the trough of government largesse).

What Hitler and Stalin and Senator Joseph McCarthy did is being done now, but it will hurt even one of us: stigmatize groups without sufficient power (children, poor, sick, handicapped) with stereotypes, even between each other, then shove each into an oubliette and forget about them. Or worse.

Here's a challenge: ask the next ten low income or poor patients you meet if they want government medicine, or would they prefer to have private medical care/insurance if they could get it.

PS: as for right versus left news sources, just look at the fact-checking sites as regards many claims being made against it. And remember: Gingrich, despite his "rehabilitation", was shamed out of office for his naked power grab tactics and shameful personal conduct. GOP attack dog "Ditto" Rush Limbaugh, a known drug addict and finally defrocked racist and misogynist, is once again in hot water. Santorum had literally said his religious views will guide his decisions in office. And the "in-touch" alternative hash't needed health insurance for decades, if ever, and does't know anyone needing health insurance.
 
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mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Here is a quote and analysis by a reasonable neutral source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

Note there is a means for states to get exemptions, and the vote was pretty strictly on party lines....which means Democratic and Republican members were in the politics, not the reality that you and I have heed been knee deep in for years. (If this was done on the basis of science and individual conscience we would have seen more crossover votes, but there were none except some Democrats).

Still looking for the IRS Army recruitment thingee...
 
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Linuss

Forum Chief
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There's the divide for you. People LIKE it if they need it. People HATE it (even though it hasn't even really started yet) because they are healthy own have insurance,
That is true for EVERY SINGLE THING in existence, and is not a valid argument for anything. "Well, how would you feel if you were in that situation?"

I'm not. And they aren't in mine. Of course EVERYONE wants stuff that benefits them. That doesn't mean it's right nor true.



Healthcare isn't as important as food, water and shelter, yet most of us have to pay money for those things instead of getting them for free. Where is the outcry at food costing money? Why aren't laws being passed so that EVERYONE gets food whenever they want, regardless of cost?
 
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