Napa Valley College paramedic teacher under fire

Veneficus said:
But you are a big boy now. :P
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That's one thing I always ask myself when threads like this pop up. Is the average tech school student really so drastically different than the average college student such that they basically need to have a surrogate mother sitting with them in the classroom? Ok, sure, there's a big difference between a medical student and a EMS student (basic or paramedic), but I have a hard time believing that the average student is a blithering idiot who can't dress themselves.
 
JPINFV said:
That's one thing I always ask myself when threads like this pop up. Is the average tech school student really so drastically different than the average college student such that they basically need to have a surrogate mother sitting with them in the classroom? Ok, sure, there's a big difference between a medical student and a EMS student (basic or paramedic), but I have a hard time believing that the average student is a blithering idiot who can't dress themselves.
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What would this big difference be?
 
JPINFV said:
Ah, punishing for the class for something someone did 2 years ago? Awesome. Additionally, sorry, but your job includes counseling and discussing issues with students who fails out be it for policy violation or academics. That's part and parcel for being a teacher and/or an administrator. This doesn't mean you have to sit there forever, but you shouldn't be blowing it off either.

"In some cultures." Which cultures should we be basing dress requirments off of? I find it strange that I can sit in a lecture hall with 330 fellow students of all races, religions, and cultures and, strangly enough, we don't have to have the administrators telling us what to wear to listen to a lecture. Shocking. If an attitude is truely affecting the class environment, then you have a duty to work with that student, up to and including explusion, than punish the entire class, and all future classes, for the actions of a few.
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Like I said, rules are made because attitides and actions are sometimes stupid. I remember the final straw which led to uniform policies being made and ultimatley enforced. Some young lady thought it was (and argued) her right to be braless during class....a lot. There was no being reasonable with this person, which is all too common when students attempt to run the school. After 5 complaints from men and women alike, including one doozie from a gentleman of a different culture, the situation had to be addressed through stringent policy changes. Policy has been tested quite a few times each semester as a few will always attmept to run the school and make their own rules. Send one home and somehow a few simple policies don't seem so hard to follow after all. I have no problem with a dean or coordinator enforcing school policy.
 
Reaper: tens of thousands of dollars is the diff.

A dedicated EMT or paramedic student is as fixated and driven as a person chasing their MD, but most are lured in by fantasies and media hype.
As most of us were, and we should remember! B)
 
rescue 99, a comment

Often an otherwise good teacher will try to send a person who is not adding their share to a class or distracting from it out, but Admin overrides them for a number of reasons. After that, the prudent teachers lets it go, if they want their jobs.
I was never accused of being prudent.
 
reaper said:
What would this big difference be?
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Shall we compare the admissions process for an average medical school vs an average paramedic or basic program?

Shall we compare the attitudes of med school administration vs EMS education (and, remember, medical school does have an hours requirement)?

I have no problem with the concept that I might be a little sheltered about the reality of the quality of the average EMS student, however if so, then the difference has to be there.
 
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mycrofft said:
Often an otherwise good teacher will try to send a person who is not adding their share to a class or distracting from it out, but Admin overrides them for a number of reasons. After that, the prudent teachers lets it go, if they want their jobs.
I was never accused of being prudent.
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Wrong. Adminstraion set the policies. Never once been accused of treating some poor student unfairly. Can't say it hasn't happened but it hasn't happened to me.
 
JPINFV said:
That's one thing I always ask myself when threads like this pop up. Is the average tech school student really so drastically different than the average college student such that they basically need to have a surrogate mother sitting with them in the classroom? Ok, sure, there's a big difference between a medical student and a EMS student (basic or paramedic), but I have a hard time believing that the average student is a blithering idiot who can't dress themselves.
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Think back to your freshman year in college. Think about all the people that you probably saw who didn't have a clue or know what was expected of them. Nowadays being 18 isn't a lot different than being 17, or 16...or 12 in some cases. I think that is part of where the mentality that an "academy style" setting is needed comes from; people who are still very young and emotionally, academically, and life-experience challenged are showing up to class and not knowing what is expected of them and don't have the ability to pick it up.

Of course, if they don't then I don't see any reason why they should remain in the class, or why the entire academic setting needs to be changed to suit a certain subset of people. Set the standards. If people don't live up to them, be it academically, or with their attendance or whatever passes for a dress code (if there is one), then it's goodbye for them.
 
My basic class did have students dismissed for reasons not related to testing or attendance... dress code violations of some kind or some conduct issues, mostly during clinicals. We were frequently warned that if the head instructor ran into us during a clinical and we didnt look squared away, there would be problems. I'm sure he communicated with our precepters about our appearance/performance as well.

I can understand raising the dress code standards if thats been a problem in the past. I'm sure its rough trying to teach(or learn in) a class when you have a few students who still act like they are in highschool.

To me it just sounded like there are some courses that take it a little further, and the use of the term bootcamp suggests an atmosphere that seems ridiculous to me. I saw no similiarities working on an ambulance to what the military is like, and saw no reason to treat them like they are similiar.
 
JPINFV said:
Shall we compare the admissions process for an average medical school vs an average paramedic or basic program?

Shall we compare the attitudes of med school administration vs EMS education (and, remember, medical school does have an hours requirement)?

I have no problem with the concept that I might be a little sheltered about the reality of the quality of the average EMS student, however if so, then the difference has to be there.
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Admission process and admins attitude toward EMS education has nothing to do with the student.

I have know many great students in EMS and Med school. I have also known many slackers in both.

That still does not mean there is a big difference between the two students, just the administration process. ;)
 
When was the last time someone was hand wringing that the 'slacker med student' was going to be a huge distraction to class like is seen in regards to EMS courses everytime one of these threads comes up?

Are you denying that the admissions process for medical school weed out students who are going to be disruptive where the most important thing in a lot of EMS courses is making sure that the check clears the bank?
 
Exactly. It is an administration problem.

What I am getting at is there is no big difference in the students. They would be the same, if we weeded out the slackers from EMS. But, until the schools do their jobs, you will end up with some idiots.
 
Thanks Reaper.

(99, I got your "wrong"...haha;)).
Sometimes Admin will cut people slack, or they do not enforce their rules, or their rules are unenforceable, or-or-or....basically leave teachers hanging, for the same reason employers rarely give negative references, to avoid trouble.

This post includes charges of fraternization and maybe borderline sexual harassment. Let the investigation begin. OP, follow up for us please.
 
JPINFV said:
Some medical schools have uniforms, but most don't. Even the ones that do are sometimes lax. For example, Nova/Southeastern University medical school's uniform is either business or scrubs. As 1 student put it when I interviewed there last year in reference to scrubs, "If they want me to wear pajamas to school, so be it."
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I go to a Ivy-league school's Dental Clinic - there, the students wear scrubs or business attire under clinic gowns... and from what I've seen, especially the advanced specialty programs, the students wear business attire to classes.
 
Schools should be taylored to the community they serve, if your local ems is paramilatary style, then thats how you tech it, if its not then don't teach it that way, around here all the fat lazy medics work in the 951/909.
 
atropine said:
Schools should be taylored to the community they serve, if your local ems is paramilatary style, then thats how you tech it, if its not then don't teach it that way, around here all the fat lazy medics work in the 951/909.
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Good to know that the LACo fire fighters in Pomona are fat and lazy.
 
atropine said:
Schools should be taylored to the community they serve, if your local ems is paramilatary style, then thats how you tech it, if its not then don't teach it that way, around here all the fat lazy medics work in the 951/909.
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That sort of precludes universal education that can be taken anywhere employment arises.
 
rescue99 said:
Like I said, rules are made because attitides and actions are sometimes stupid. I remember the final straw which led to uniform policies being made and ultimatley enforced. Some young lady thought it was (and argued) her right to be braless during class....a lot. There was no being reasonable with this person, which is all too common when students attempt to run the school. After 5 complaints from men and women alike, including one doozie from a gentleman of a different culture, the situation had to be addressed through stringent policy changes. Policy has been tested quite a few times each semester as a few will always attmept to run the school and make their own rules. Send one home and somehow a few simple policies don't seem so hard to follow after all. I have no problem with a dean or coordinator enforcing school policy.
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Uh, so does your academy now inspect all female students to enforce the proper undergarments policy?

Not exactly sure what's wrong with a women not wearing a bra -- I assume that when you say "braless" you really mean "she had big breasts and wore low-cut shirts and no bra."


from buying pizza and beer for the male members of the first class every Friday
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From the article. That does sound kind of weird...
 
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Last article about this was 14MARCH'10, NApa Valley Register.

Gone dark.
 
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