Medic School to Med School

[EpiEMS]

The "boots on the ground" experience, in terms of medicine, is best going to be provided through shadowing.[/QUOTE=JPINFV;404978]

Can't do anything when you're shadowing. Other than be a fly on the wall.

Similarly, for the human component, the various non-EMT clinical activities (such as volunteering) provides a better proximation of disease and injury from a physician standpoint than EMS.[/QUOTE=JPINFV;404978]

This isn't untrue, but an EMS background gives you the ability to function in the hospital setting in many places –:censored:as an ER tech, perhaps, or on the med/surg wards, no?

The vast majority of physicians neither deal with prehospital emergency medicine, or even any emergency medicine. When the primary care physician is dealing with an emergency, often the best choice for them is to call 911.
[/QUOTE=JPINFV;404978]

I have no argument here.

Without research we'd still be placing leeches on patients to 'remove bad blood.'

Valid point, but a heck of a lot of the research that's really advanced medicine has been conducted by non-physicians. Think about Pasteur (chemist). Or Gregor Mendel (monk). Or Humphry Davy (chemist). Or Felix Hoffmann (chemist). Or Paul Ehrlich (biologist).

Physicians have a valid and vital perspective, but most physicians have little to do with research, no? And certainly not research that doesn't really impact their practice of medicine?

 

[fortsmithman]

The University of Toronto at /scarborough offer a Bachelor of Schience in Paramedicine thats for Primary Care Paramedic and according to the UofT web site that degree can be used to enter the UofT medical school.

 

[EpiEMS]

It has been my experience that the bio major would be about 1/4 to 1/2 as big, enrollment wise, if pre-meds didn't think it would help them get into medical school or help them once they got in.

Admit rates are higher for non-biology and non-premedical students than for majors such as history, physics, chemistry, and economics, among others. I'm actively looking for figures on this that are more recent than the 1998 data I found (Search for "medical admission rates by major" on Google and select the AMCAS website entitled "Major Anxiety".)

The 1998 figures are as follows:

All majors 37%
Biology 35%
Chemistry 39%
Physics 42%
Biochemistry 43%
English 46%
History 49%
Philosophy 50%

Additionally, MCAT scores, according to the AAMC, even for economics majors than for biology majors. (http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/reports/mcat2009.pdf).

 

[medicsb]

Admit rates are higher for non-biology and non-premedical students than for majors such as history, physics, chemistry, and economics, among others. I'm actively looking for figures on this that are more recent than the 1998 data I found (Search for "medical admission rates by major" on Google and select the AMCAS website entitled "Major Anxiety".)

The 1998 figures are as follows:

All majors 37%
Biology 35%
Chemistry 39%
Physics 42%
Biochemistry 43%
English 46%
History 49%
Philosophy 50%

Additionally, MCAT scores, according to the AAMC, even for economics majors than for biology majors. (http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/reports/mcat2009.pdf).

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/ - table 18

52% of applicants are "biological sciences" majors.
51% of matriculants are "biological sciences" majors.

49% of humanities majors matriculate
49% of math majors
49% of physical sciences
45% of social sciences
43% of bio
43% of "other"
33% of specialized health science (they tended to have the lowest mean MCAT scores - 29 for the avg matric)

 

[JPINFV]

The "boots on the ground" experience, in terms of medicine, is best going to be provided through shadowing.

Can't do anything when you're shadowing. Other than be a fly on the wall.

The point of shadowing isn't to do something, it's about learning what a physician does, especially since a lot of things people get excited for are done by non-physicians. Only surgery and a handful of other specialties are procedure based.

Similarly, for the human component, the various non-EMT clinical activities (such as volunteering) provides a better proximation of disease and injury from a physician standpoint than EMS.

This isn't untrue, but an EMS background gives you the ability to function in the hospital setting in many places –:censored:as an ER tech, perhaps, or on the med/surg wards, no?

CNA is going to get more of an in with in-patient care than an EMT. Heck, the hospital I volunteered at the majority of ER techs were CNAs, and I could do most of what the techs could do besides 12 leads, and that was only because those go directly into the chart for the physician to read.

Valid point, but a heck of a lot of the research that's really advanced medicine has been conducted by non-physicians. Think about Pasteur (chemist). Or Gregor Mendel (monk). Or Humphry Davy (chemist). Or Felix Hoffmann (chemist). Or Paul Ehrlich (biologist).

Physicians have a valid and vital perspective, but most physicians have little to do with research, no? And certainly not research that doesn't really impact their practice of medicine?

Basic science research? Yes. Clinical research? Not so much. Furthermore, the impact determines a lot on where it's applicable. Not everyone's going to get published in Lancet or JAMA or NEMJ, but that doesn't mean it isn't important. Furthermore, one study shouldn't change practices. Many studies, on the other hand, does.

 

[JPINFV]

Admit rates are higher for non-biology and non-premedical students than for majors such as history, physics, chemistry, and economics, among others. I'm actively looking for figures on this that are more recent than the 1998 data I found (Search for "medical admission rates by major" on Google and select the AMCAS website entitled "Major Anxiety".)

The 1998 figures are as follows:

All majors 37%
Biology 35%
Chemistry 39%
Physics 42%
Biochemistry 43%
English 46%
History 49%
Philosophy 50%

Additionally, MCAT scores, according to the AAMC, even for economics majors than for biology majors. (http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/reports/mcat2009.pdf).

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/ - table 18

52% of applicants are "biological sciences" majors.
51% of matriculants are "biological sciences" majors.

49% of humanities majors matriculate
49% of math majors
49% of physical sciences
45% of social sciences
43% of bio
43% of "other"
33% of specialized health science (they tended to have the lowest mean MCAT scores - 29 for the avg matric)

Regardless, correlation doesn't equal causation, and I wouldn't read any survey of undergrad majors as, "The path to med school begins with a degree in ____."

 

[Veneficus]

Regardless, correlation doesn't equal causation, and I wouldn't read any survey of undergrad majors as, "The path to med school begins with a degree in ____."

Probably a very good idea when, as I understand, some schools try for "balanced" classes.

The data presented here seems to support that conclusion.

 

[EpiEMS]

The point of shadowing isn't to do something, it's about learning what a physician does, especially since a lot of things people get excited for are done by non-physicians. Only surgery and a handful of other specialties are procedure based.

Makes sense. My impression of pre-meds is that they really have no idea of what medicine involves. Anything's better than their unrealistic expectations, that's for sure.

CNA is going to get more of an in with in-patient care than an EMT. Heck, the hospital I volunteered at the majority of ER techs were CNAs, and I could do most of what the techs could do besides 12 leads, and that was only because those go directly into the chart for the physician to read.

I'd bet this is hospital-by-hospital, so my suggestion is probably moot.

 

[JPINFV]

I'd bet this is hospital-by-hospital, so my suggestion is probably moot.

Especially when it comes to volunteering. The group I was with was specifically geared towards pre-health (medicine, nursing, dentistry, PA, etc) college students. As such, what we were expected to do, trained to do, and allowed to do was very different than the normal high school volunteers (candy stripers) or retired volunteers (who normally run the gift shop or act as a receptionist in waiting rooms).

 

[FLdoc2011]

Makes sense. My impression of pre-meds is that they really have no idea of what medicine involves. Anything's better than their unrealistic expectations, that's for sure.

Med school is a huge commitment and when a school accepts someone they want someone who is serious about the commitment and who's going to stick around.

Granted, shadowing may not truly reveal all aspects of real life medical practice, but it should hopefully give the premed an idea of what being a physician entails and that it's not like House or any number of TV shows.