me vs doctor

G

Guardian

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I get done with a routine call and finished up my paperwork. I go up to the doctor and ask for his signature because I started an IV. I gave no meds to the pt, but we're still required to get a signature. This is a busy urban hospital. He says, "no". I go, "what do you mean no?" He says, "don't waste my time with this B.S." I tell him my superiors require this and look for it during QA checks. He says, "you go tell those idiots not to waste my time, starting IV's is a routine procedure and you are wasting my f'ing time. You all should be professional enough not to waste our f'ing time every time you do a routine procedure."

It was at this point I found myself in a weird position. On one hand, I agreed with everything he said. Why aren't we progressing with other health care professions? They're getting impatient waiting for us to catch up. On the other hand, I had to get sh*tty with him for talking to me like that. I think this incident highlights why some of us are constantly pushing for increased standards, education, and ultimately more professionalism
 
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bstone

bstone

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1) Inform the director of the ER about this.

2) Informed your superiors

3) Write an incident report and hand it to your superiors, just so you have a written record and don't get in trouble.

Geez...that doc is grumpy! I promise you when I become a doc I will never, ever give EMTs a hard time. If I do then I personally invite you to kick my very hard in the back side.
 
Rattletrap

Rattletrap

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Also make sure you have the doc's name and make sure he/she knows you have it.
 
Ridryder911

Ridryder911

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Be like a duck and let it roll off you..

I do agree with the Doc, it is silly to have to get a signature for a standard of practice such as IV's. I also can agree it is annoying to have to sign every little paper. Albeit, he had NO diplomacy, he probably thought that his message would get across.

You can get his name, but I really doubt he gives a damn. In fact, trying to intimidate him will only piss him off more. Remember, I doubt that someone that has to have a signature for an IV will be worried giving their name. What are they going to really do?

I agree with others, notify your superiors and hopefully they will come past the 80's and advance up on your paperwork. If he still refuses attempt to get a witness, and graciously tell him that you are just trying to stay out of trouble.. and document that physician ..XYZ ... refused to sign.

Good luck,

R/r 911
 
firetender

firetender

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Use your paramedic radar to sense when he's in a better mood. Pull him aside and let him know you agree, without taking a stance against the system you work for. Suggest you're willing to make it painless as possible for both of you.

I'm suggesting that you make yourself real to him first, and then let it go. The relationship could pay off in the future, and if not, at least you know you faced him up front.
 
bstone

bstone

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Ya know I tell ya, some docs just have a chip on their shoulders. Many of my fellow students do. I hope they become radiolgists so they never see patients as that would be bad for the patient.
 
T

triemal04

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Just out of curiosity, what kind of system do you work in that you have to get a doctor to sign off on...an IV start? Unless this was a central line (and then only maybe)...what is the reasoning behind that?
 
DT4EMS

DT4EMS

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Is the signature required for the "medical necessity" for Medicare/Medicaid? I feel your pain. I would get embarrassed having to ask for a signature on paperwork, but the system required it.

I wouldn’t make too big of a deal out of it. Writing trivial stuff like that up will come back to bite you or a partner later
 
Airwaygoddess

Airwaygoddess

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SIGH.........:rolleyes:
 
OP
OP
G

Guardian

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I didn't go running to cry and moan to my supervisor or medical director. I didn't write any kind of incident report or formal complaint. Why? Because that doctor wouldn't have given a sh$t. For anyone that is surprised about how this doctor treated me, let me fill you in on a couple of things. You (emt-b) think paramedics disrespect you, try being a paramedic and having to deal with registered nuts (RNs) and MDs all day. This didn't even faze me. In fact, I consider that particular doctor a friend and I think the only reason he talked to me like that was because he liked me. I think some of you are missing my point, which is, that now even other branches of health care are getting upset with our lack of progression as a profession.
 
BossyCow

BossyCow

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Name me one profession that is spared being dressed down by a superior, co-worker or customer? Why should EMS be immune from jerks? No other profession that includes human beings is.
 
bstone

bstone

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I'd document it as you never know what's going to come back and haunt you.

With friends like that who needs enemies? Seriously tho, I hope you pulled him aside later and told him you didn't enjoy him speaking to you so unprofessionally. I would.
 
BossyCow

BossyCow

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bstone said:
Seriously tho, I hope you pulled him aside later and told him you didn't enjoy him speaking to you so unprofessionally. I would.
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I agree, unprofessional behavior can only flourish in a system which either excuses it or otherwise allows it.
 
OP
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G

Guardian

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bstone said:
I'd document it as you never know what's going to come back and haunt you.

With friends like that who needs enemies? Seriously tho, I hope you pulled him aside later and told him you didn't enjoy him speaking to you so unprofessionally. I would.
Click to expand...


Not that this matters but,...I didn't pull him aside later, but instead got mad and used a few choice words right then and there. Luckily, a sweet old charge nurse stepped in between and said "boys, play nice" and we went on our way, just after he relented and signed my call sheet. This particular doctor is one of my favorites because he has taken the time to show me a few things over the past couple of years. I think he was just having a bad night. They always seem to get pissed off when they have high numbers of patients to deal with at night.
 
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BruceD

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bstone said:
Geez...that doc is grumpy! I promise you when I become a doc I will never, ever give EMTs a hard time. If I do then I personally invite you to kick my very hard in the back side.
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haha, be careful about making a statement like this - you never know who you may run up against.
Was it warranted in this situation? NOPE. Sounds like he was having a very stressful day (night?) - perhaps his hatred of 'paperwork getting in the way of patient care' got to him. Most in this business do paperwork only grudgingly because we are in the immediate area of people in pain/trouble, but the bureaucrats and lawyers that require all this ink never are.

But you may run up against that one hard-headed EMT someday that you may have to take down a notch via less than pleasant means, you probably don't want to invite him to kick you in the backside!
 
Ridryder911

Ridryder911

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bstone said:
I'd document it as you never know what's going to come back and haunt you.

With friends like that who needs enemies? Seriously tho, I hope you pulled him aside later and told him you didn't enjoy him speaking to you so unprofessionally. I would.
Click to expand...

bstone; I know your intent is made with ernest, but there is a real world. Yes, there is a time to fight, and a time to bite your tongue. Pick your fights wisely, as well when to intervene and not to say a word.

I highly suggest you check out student doctor forum and see how the real world is in medical school and residency and workplace. Look at how much abuse goes on and is to be expected. It's a tough profession. If it just took brains and knowledge, there would never be a shortage of Doc's.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/

R/r 911
 
MMiz

MMiz

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I'd hate to side with the doctor, but in principle, why do you really need his signature for starting an IV? Is this your county requirement? Service requirement? I don't understand the rationale.

I'm not trying to justify the doctor's response, but I too would think that it was BS.
 
A

Anomalous

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Usually, if you just ask once and then stand there with the clipboard and pen, people will sign just to get rid of you.

I agree with the BS part.
 
bstone

bstone

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ridryder 911 said:
bstone; I know your intent is made with ernest, but there is a real world. Yes, there is a time to fight, and a time to bite your tongue. Pick your fights wisely, as well when to intervene and not to say a word.

I highly suggest you check out student doctor forum and see how the real world is in medical school and residency and workplace. Look at how much abuse goes on and is to be expected. It's a tough profession. If it just took brains and knowledge, there would never be a shortage of Doc's.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/

R/r 911
Click to expand...

Know all about SDN. Been posting there for a few years now.
 
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