Mandated Shifts

Shishkabob

Shishkabob

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Do any of your agencies mandate shifts to fill vacancies? If not, how does your agency handle being a medic short on a truck?



My agency does, and they are the only one in the area that I know of. Kinda sucks... I am mandated next Sunday at a far away station. 3 hour drive, for a 12 hour shift... plus I work a 24 the next day. Plus I've been told I can expect to be mandated once a week for the next month since I'm new and don't have any points yet. They assign "points" to those who get mandated, so the more points you have, the lower you are on the mandate list.
 
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Linuss said:
Do any of your agencies mandate shifts to fill vacancies? If not, how does your agency handle being a medic short on a truck?



My agency does, and they are the only one in the area that I know of. Kinda sucks... I am mandated next Sunday at a far away station. 3 hour drive, for a 12 hour shift... plus I work a 24 the next day. They assign "points" to those who get mandated, so the more points you have, the lower you are on the mandate list.
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The Last FD I worked for had mandation, but it was never used to my knowledge.

All of the hospitals I know had it as well, but it only seemed to be implemented for the nursing staff, and even then, very judiciously.

One EMS agency I worked at had a constant shortage and to keep units opened, offered such amazing finanacial/operational compensation for "volunteering" that they never had a problem getting people to volunteer.
 
Yup, we can be mandatoried. We have 4 "get out of jail" cards we can use a year to get out of it. Sometimes you can get out of it by volunteering for a different shift on days they have a couple of shifts open.
 
Oh the blessing of being "needed" at work. While i've been nursing this sore throat, i called in once and turned down 2 bonus pay shifts. They need me every day over there...

Sometimes its nice...

sometimes is HELL

lol good luck on your long commutes my friend.
 
Our service never mandates work. They will offer what they can to get people to fill shifts. If they cannot fill a shift, then they will shut down a QRV and move that person, Put a supervisor on a truck or shut the truck down. They never force OT. If you are at a county station and your relief calls in, It is up to you if you want to cover or they will shut it down till they find someone.
 
We have mandatory OT. It's based on a rotating shift, with everybody rotating evenly. It rarely gets used though because we have tons of part timers willing to pick up shifts
 
We do not have mandated OT shifts BUT we work a 24 shift with 4 shifts meaning every one gets 8 hrs ot every week except the "short week when your work day fall on wednesday then you only get 24 scheduled hrs that week, of course we always have part time and per diem people willing to work when needed as long as it's on shift and not an out of town transfer then you can't find anyone to work and send the transfer off shift which puts us one truck short, the joy of high call volume.
 
We just lost an EMT-I at my service so me and our other full time EMT-I have been forced into picking up some of his shifts.
 
The way it works at my service
- Full timers are assigned to Platoons and work a set rotation. (~ 14-16 12 hour shifts per month)
- Every platoon has Swing shift medics (6-8 medics per district) who are not assigned to a station or truck, they call each shift before coming in to see where they're needed. If there's a surplus they're assigned to an extra truck.
- Casual staff are used to fill in for vacation and leave spots, follow no platoon rotation and work up to a maximum of 8 shifts per month. No benefits.
- When people book off with short notice the automated system calls out in order of seniority to offer overtime shifts. Medics are not required to take these shifts. If all the full-time medics decline OT then the system can call casuals and they can work over 8 shifts.

Our only mandatory OT is when a late call comes in, or in an extreme case (disaster, sudden extreme spike in calls) a Superintendent or higher may instruct crews that they have to stay on. In the case of a late call, once clear of that call the crew is considered out of service unless they literally come across a call, or are closest to a cardiac arrest. If you get hit with a call after the end of a shift a second unit not on OT will be sent as back-up to transport so the initial crew can get home.
 
I'm just a volunteer, so for us obviously if the duty crew doesn't show up that apparatus is not put into service.

I'm not 100% clear on how the paid FD guys handle it. I know that there is a minimum staffing level for the county (so many medic units, so many ambos total), but I haven't seen any cases where that limit was reached. It's not uncommon to come in and our station is only rolling a BLS ambulance that day due to a Kelly or something - there is generally only one medic per shift aside from the officer, and I've never seen an officer on an ambo. There is plenty of shifting career staff around if they need an HVO or something, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. I wasn't around for last year's huge snowstorm; it's possible that shifts were mandated then with lots of people unable to make it in for their shift.
 
Depends on the service:
Transport: Usual holdover for late calls, no holdover for calloffs unless I volunteer.
Both 911 squads - No mandatory holdover. The one is able, due to other nearby ALS services to take the truck from a ALS transport to a BLS transport or even a BLS responder in a true staffing crunch. The other MUST be staffed 24x7 - if my boss has to drive in and staff it he will... the joys of being the boss.

For either service, I will be offered the hours, it will be understood if I turn it down for class or something else.
 
This is going to be one of the longest threads ever; mandatory (forced OT) is a sore point with many providers.

In NYC, it's illegal to hold anyone past 16 hours (plus late job if you're already on it). My hospital would hold us for up to four hours in 911, if it was a 12 hour shift, 8 extra hours past an 8 hour tour. No mandations for the IFT side. FDNY EMS had this on and off program called KVO (known vacancy opening). If you schedule yourself for three extra shifts a month, they can't mandate you.

Charleston County EMS had the worst forced OT policy I've seen. It's one for one relief. On a 24 hour truck, you can be held for an additional 24 hours, as often as they need to. 24 hours past a 12 hour tour as well. They can call you off duty carte blanche to come back in. These holdovers and recalls can happen as often as they want them to, and ususally did. Even if you had travel plans, with tickets and a hotel reservation as proof, it didn't matter. You had to schedule 24 of OT after your regular 24 before you start your vacation, just so you're safe from holdover. We also had to be on call for 12 hours twice a month, with no stipend offered to compensate for having to stay local and be ready to go into work at a moment's notice. You also had a six hour CME session once a month, which usually conflicted with a holdover, so you had to reschedule on one of your few remaining days off. You're never home.

Here at my FD, it's a whole lot better. We work 24's. We cannot be held past 12 hours, for a total of 36. It's one for one relief, but each station is up a FF or two as regular staffing, and some extra medics here and there as well. They try and fill vacancies by details from these surplus employees, then from the voluntary OT list, and only then there's holdover and recall. Because of the dept's proactive approach of upstaffing stations by a couple of people, their vacation/sick relief along with voluntary OT results in few holdovers and recalls. The best of it is, we have what's called a no holdove /recall list. At lineup every morning, we pass around the list to fill out if you need to. A doctor's appointment, travel plans, upcoming scheduled OT, a doctor's appointment for your spouse or children, the county's annual physical, FD classes, if you did 12 of OT before coming to work that day, and if you have scheduled leave the next work day, are all reasons to sign the no holdover/recall list, and be released from obligation. I almost fell over when I learned of this dept's holdover policies, having just been bent over repeatedly by Charleston, as above.

It sucks that many in EMS need to work OT or other jobs to make a liveable wage; it's a real kick in the nuts to be repeatedly held over and even called in from home when you're trying to enjoy what little free time you have left.
 
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Jon said:
Depends on the service:
Transport: Usual holdover for late calls, no holdover for calloffs unless I volunteer.
Both 911 squads - No mandatory holdover. The one is able, due to other nearby ALS services to take the truck from a ALS transport to a BLS transport or even a BLS responder in a true staffing crunch. The other MUST be staffed 24x7 - if my boss has to drive in and staff it he will... the joys of being the boss.

For either service, I will be offered the hours, it will be understood if I turn it down for class or something else.
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Our OT list is fair, IMO. The person to have done OT at the furthest point in the past, for their job title, gets called first. If I last worked on 2/08, and another person worked on 2/07, they get the call first. The OT gets doled out fairly that way. Those who bid for 24 hours all get called before those who only put in for 12. If they call you and you tell them you can't work, you drop to the bottom of the list, and the date next to your name reflects the day that you got called. You could have last worked OT two years ago, signed up, got the call today, refused, and the date of OT last worked will say 2/17/2011.
 
46Young said:
Charleston County EMS had the worst forced OT policy I've seen..
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Cut for brevity.

That is the worst policy I have ever heard of... Anywhere.

I can't imagine who in their right mind came up with such a policy as the turnover it would create would be outrageous from both a staffing and operational cost standpoint.

Maybe it is different in 2011, but when I was working EMS paramedics were so in demand that if I had a plane ticket and hotel for my vacation and somebody tried to keep me, I would quit on the spot and be employed a few days after I got back.
 
Veneficus said:
Cut for brevity.

That is the worst policy I have ever heard of... Anywhere.

I can't imagine who in their right mind came up with such a policy as the turnover it would create would be outrageous from both a staffing and operational cost standpoint.

Maybe it is different in 2011, but when I was working EMS paramedics were so in demand that if I had a plane ticket and hotel for my vacation and somebody tried to keep me, I would quit on the spot and be employed a few days after I got back.
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It does creat a huge amount of turnover. They pay well for the area, so they'll continue to attract new employees from the area. I sw a lot of OH people coming in when I left. They always have a vacancy for medics; I've never seen the job not be posted:

https://jobsweb.charlestoncounty.org/hronline/public/vacancylisting.aspx

I was hired in six weeks, and I had an offer to start two weeks prior to that. A one month process, that I could have sped up by getting my driver's abstract, and background check done sooner. I suppose that they make out financially because they're always paying the bulk of the medics close to starting salary, the don't need to pay them pensions even though they contribute to the system for the couple of years they're there. Their orientation is one day, and then you're minimal staffing riding with an FTO. It doesn't cost them much at all for training, by design, I'm sure. The local hospitals steal CCEMS employees away all the time - three 12's a week on a liveable salary, OT opportunities, and no mandations other than late jobs.

Back when I became a medic, really until I joined this forum, I thought medics were in high demand everywhere. Apparently right after I left NYC the medic demand had turned around. It was really easy to find ALS work in NYC. t still seems to be the case in SC, VA, and MD from what I've seen. We get medics from OH and FL all the time due to the oversaturation of medics in these states.
 
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46Young said:
It does creat a huge amount of turnover. They pay well for the area, so they'll continue to attract new employees from the area. I sw a lot of OH people coming in when I left. They always have a vacancy for medics; I've never seen the job not be posted:

https://jobsweb.charlestoncounty.org/hronline/public/vacancylisting.aspx

I was hired in six weeks, and I had an offer to start two weeks prior to that. A one month process, that I could have sped up by getting my driver's abstract, and background check done sooner. I suppose that they make out financially because they're always paying the bulk of the medics close to starting salary, the don't need to pay them pensions even though they contribute to the system for the couple of years they're there. Their orientation is one day, and then you're minimal staffing riding with an FTO. It doesn't cost them much at all for training, by design, I'm sure. The local hospitals steal CCEMS employees away all the time - three 12's a week on a liveable salary, OT opportunities, and no mandations other than late jobs.

Back when I became a medic, really until I joined this forum, I thought medics were in high demand everywhere. Apparently right after I left NYC the medic demand had turned around. It was really easy to find ALS work in NYC. t still seems to be the case in SC, VA, and MD from what I've seen. We get medics from OH and FL all the time due to the oversaturation of medics in these states.
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Edit: regarding the costs of turnover - up to a certain point, it's more financially beneficial to give out OT rather than hire another employee and have to pay fringe benefits. In addition, CCEMS had the policy that you were put available immediately after showing at the ED with the pt. You can get a call, which you have to take, with the pt still on your cot. In my experience, this is a crutch for depts that have poor staffing and deployment.
 
46Young said:
We get medics from OH and FL all the time due to the oversaturation of medics in these states.
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The oversaturation of medics in Ohio, particularly the North East, is absolutely sad.

Many "schools" in this area take advantage of the fact most emergency services are provided by the FD. To even get an application, most area FDs require you are a paramedic. (because EMS is greater than 90% of the calls)

Hundreds of students (who pay obscene amounts of money for these classes) a semester are turned out with absolutely no future in the state at all. Unfortunately, many dream they are just as competative for the handful of positions hiring every 2 years or so in the entire region.

You can probably imagine how terrible it is to work for area privates who do exclusively IFT with so many desperate providers.

On the bright side, the education is good because the schools know they are basically exporting people and have to prepare them well enough to work elsewhere.
 
My current company doesn't mandate OT, and can only assign you a call 2 hours past your off time. We regularly get 7-10 shifts paged out a day, of people looking for coverage, or telling us there are open shifts.
 
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No mandatory OT here, except a late call. OT shifts are given to casuals first and if no takers then offered to full time staff. If I show up for work and have no partner I stay as a first response unit until they can find a partner for me or I would be sent somewhere to partner up someone else. This at least gives them one unit instead of two half units. If I am sent somewhere else for a shift I can take my own vehicle and get mileage or take the amb I was assigned. They won't send you too far away as they also have to get you back for your shift end.
 
The only mandatories are for holidays/area-specific holidays (mainly Derby related). Other shifts are filled by paging out things like this:

Open shift tomorrow for a medic.

Open shift in the morning for a medic.

OPEN SHIFT FOR MEDICS!!!! CALL IF YOU CAN HELP!!!!

WE REALLY NEED A MEDIC TODAY!!!!! PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!


followed by holding medics until they get someone else to come on shift.
 
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