Long question, need some thoughts

[bunkie]

Hey guys. Need some advice here.

We have an instructor in our class who is only there about once a week, if that. Usually only when our main instructor needs the extra hands. When we're doing our skills, we usually go through scenarios. She throws things at us that we haven't learned how to handle yet, then we we screw it up she starts shouting about how the patient is dead, we suck, she'd fire us all, and so on and so forth. Shes a very SCARE, YELL, KILL, DEATH, FIRED, kind of teacher. She tells you what you've done wrong, not how, why or what to fix. IMHO, I feel she's completely inappropriate as a teacher. The thing that bothers me is that she shows up on evaluation days when we're being graded on our physical skills. And throws scenarios at us, during these days, that we haven't been trained to handle... and you can guess the result. We have PT Assessment coming up for grading, if we screw it up three times we're out of the program. On the same day we have our first major written exam. :wacko: (tomorrow). After the things she was doing last night I have serious concerns with her fair grading of anyone in the evaluation as she seems to not know the extent of what we've been taught so far.
Also, between our main instructor, her and the rest of the evaluators that we have come in, we're being told conflicting information at times. So I can never get a straight answer as to how to do what, when, where and how during times.

Example:
During PT Assessment, I was responding to an unknown. My "PT" was wheezing/gasping badly, could barely speak and told me he couldn't breathe. So as I started my initial I had him on a NRB. (Then my pt forgets to tell me several of his symptoms that were necessary to the scenario.) <_< And goes straight into his airway closing. I was under the impression I was a single responder. So now I'm choosing between the assessment, which I'm still on the initial... or getting air into my PT.
Now.. at this point I would have went straight into making sure he was getting air via PPV/BVM. ALS had already been called, we were in transit.. But my PT wasn't getting air. So I asked, am I supposed to react how I would in the field or continue with PT assessment? And I could not get a straight answer. Then an evaluator walks up and tells me I have an imaginary partner. One person said "we just want to see that you can do pt assessment" so that was more of a yes, continue... and the instructor of concern goes on and on about life threats being more important then PT assessment. :wacko:

I want to address my concerns about the instructor who tests us on things we haven't learned and the mass mess of conflicting answers/teaching. Would you?

 

[akflightmedic]

How old are you?

Kind of rhetorical and the only reason I ask is at some point you have to lose that teacher knows all mentality and learn it is ok to approach them and be in direct contrast of their opinion.

Are you paying for this course? If so, you are a customer who deserves to get the product they are paying for. If you got crappy service at dinner, would you tip well? If you buy a TV and it does not work, do you just keep it and say oh well?

The same thought process applies to your education. You are spending your money for a quality education. If you feel you are not getting it, you need to document what you feel is inappropriate and you need to present it to the instructor. If you do not get satisfactory responses or corrections to the situation, you then go one level up and continue to do so until it is resolved.

Bare in mind, the end result may not always be what you desire but it will prompt change, hopefully.

After multiple complaints and no pleasant solution, you can always demand your money back and find another school. If it is a private school, you can complain to the Better Business Bureau. If it is a college, you can complain to the state EMS board or top college officials.

Good on you for recognizing that this is NOT how the teaching should be occurring and good on you for wanting to do something about it. Now go do it...

 

[exodus]

If it is a private school, and they still do not fix the problem, complain to the EMS board, and they very well may audit (and possibly the 'instructor') them if there's multiple complaints.

 

[HotelCo]

Have you actually brought these concerns to the instructor that you have a problem with? Start there before jumping up a level and talking to your main instructor.

 

[bunkie]

That was my plan Hotel. Go to my main instructor, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't out of line in doing so.

 

[medic417]

As Hotel said discuss with the instructor you call bad. Perhaps her technique is actually helping you to learn to deal with the stress of all the unknowns you will face in the real world.

 

[HotelCo]

That was my plan Hotel. Go to my main instructor, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't out of line in doing so.

You are out of line by going to your main instructor if you haven't talked to the instructor that is causing the problem for you(the yeller).talk to the problem instructor. BEFORE talking with your main instructor. Try to solve school problems at the lowest level possible. In this case, that would be the problem instrucor. If you two can't work it out, THEN you goto your main instructor.

 

[akflightmedic]

You are out of line by going to your main instructor if you haven't talked to the instructor that is causing the problem for you(the yeller).talk to the problem instructor. BEFORE talking with your main instructor. Try to solve school problems at the lowest level possible. In this case, that would be the problem instrucor. If you two can't work it out, THEN you goto your main instructor.

Negative, the problem instructor has already displayed her inability to conduct effective adult learning in a professional setting.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with going to the main instructor on this matter as that is the first link in the chain. The problem instructor is merely a "guest" instructor who assists on testing nights. The main instructor needs to be informed so he may deal with his assistants.

As for the technique being necessary to introduce one to all the unknown stress, that can come at a later date AFTER the foundations have been laid. This behavior is unprofessional, ignorant, and indicative of one who has never taken any higher level courses in adult education processes.

 

[wyoskibum]

Negative, the problem instructor has already displayed her inability to conduct effective adult learning in a professional setting.

I think akflightmedic is right. Judging by the initial description of the instructor, they don't seem very approachable. My guess is that person would become defensive and perhaps down the line vindictive.

 

[bunkie]

As Hotel said discuss with the instructor you call bad. Perhaps her technique is actually helping you to learn to deal with the stress of all the unknowns you will face in the real world.

That was my thought too, at first... but why stress your students before they even know what to do? Akflight said it best in his last paragraph.

Negative, the problem instructor has already displayed her inability to conduct effective adult learning in a professional setting.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with going to the main instructor on this matter as that is the first link in the chain. The problem instructor is merely a "guest" instructor who assists on testing nights. The main instructor needs to be informed so he may deal with his assistants.

As for the technique being necessary to introduce one to all the unknown stress, that can come at a later date AFTER the foundations have been laid. This behavior is unprofessional, ignorant, and indicative of one who has never taken any higher level courses in adult education processes.

I completely agree. We are being evaluated tomorrow and I'm willing to bet that 99% of our group will be failed just on this cluster-:censored::censored::censored::censored:.

I think akflightmedic is right. Judging by the initial description of the instructor, they don't seem very approachable. My guess is that person would become defensive and perhaps down the line vindictive.

You are quite accurate. Very unapproachable. High potential for the defensive.

 

[HotelCo]

I still say that you should at least make an attempt to solve the problem with the instructor that is causing the problems. Just because you goto your lead instructor, doesn't mean that the result will be in your favor.

 

[Akulahawk]

There is a place for being exposed to stresses like that, however, when you're in a learning or a testing environment, this is inappropriate. When you're being critiqued after the scenario, that is when some of that is appropriate. Such critique should also be very quickly followed by what should have been done, and allow the student to take in that info, and perhaps rehearse it correctly.

IMHO, that instructor does not have appropriate skills for being an effective teacher within an adult classroom. If the situation really is what the OP says it is, the first step should be to talk to the primary instructor, as that person is ultimately responsible for the course content and conduct of the instructors and staff. The assistant instructor quite possibly might not take well to being confronted by "students" about the behavior... and might not see anything inappropriate about it.

 

[creative_soul]

Is your primary instructor there during all of the assistant's yelling and such? If he/she is, I am really surprised that they have not said anything about it being inapropriate and made sure the behavior stopped. <_<

 

[8jimi8]

Talk to your lead instructor.

Also, take refuge in the fact that during NREMT testing, the Evaluator cannot say anything to you except what is on the NREMT skill scenario sheet.

They may ask you other questions, but you cannot be failed unless you do not meet the stated criteria on the bottom of the page.

It seems to me that most students have at least one horror story instructor who is intimidating and belittling. My advice is take a deep breath and do your skills.

During a patient assessment. You begin with your Scene Size up and progress through the skill after addressing scene safety, number of patients, initial impression and start with ABC. If you find a life threatening sign/symptom then you deal with that life threatening item and continue on with the assessment.

If you are unsure what you need to know, go to the NREMT website and download the skill sheets. They contain all of the necessary information that must be covered during skill check offs.

 

[bunkie]

Thanks everyone.

I talked to my lead instructor this evening. He said he's had this "complaint" before and that is her way of teaching. I pointed out the errors and he agreed that there were some causes for concern. But I felt at the end of the talk I hadn't really gotten through to him. Then this evening while I was doing my assessment on a PT I got called out by an evaluator (that I enjoy and hopefully will be my coworker one day) that I was doing a step in mixed order. But I was going off the order that I worked all day to memorize that the instructor in question had written out for us last night. I happily pointed out to him the cause for my error. He was very concerned in that we were all told this and then went and discussed it with the main instructor. It was then I was able to have my "told you so" satisfaction internally. And I feel that it was then, when another evaluator pointed out an error in that instructors method that the point was really driven home. She also is not going to be doing those things to us during our evaluation tomorrow, according to my main instructor today.

And yes, he is there when she's doing her "method." However, he's usually on the other side of a very loud and noisy room.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Thanks everyone.

I talked to my lead instructor this evening. He said he's had this "complaint" before and that is her way of teaching. I pointed out the errors and he agreed that there were some causes for concern. But I felt at the end of the talk I hadn't really gotten through to him. Then this evening while I was doing my assessment on a PT I got called out by an evaluator (that I enjoy and hopefully will be my coworker one day) that I was doing a step in mixed order. But I was going off the order that I worked all day to memorize that the instructor in question had written out for us last night. I happily pointed out to him the cause for my error. He was very concerned in that we were all told this and then went and discussed it with the main instructor. It was then I was able to have my "told you so" satisfaction internally. And I feel that it was then, when another evaluator pointed out an error in that instructors method that the point was really driven home. She also is not going to be doing those things to us during our evaluation tomorrow, according to my main instructor today.

And yes, he is there when she's doing her "method." However, he's usually on the other side of a very loud and noisy room.

What was this "out of order" mistake?

And sounds like your school is setting you up for failure... I have seen classes where the students pass because of the instruction and classes where the students pass in spite of the instruction... The latter, however, does not produce EMTs worth anything...

 

[DV_EMT]

I had a SAR TA like this...

Its one thing to be diciplined about order of steps... certainly NR skills and actual field skills are different in order based on the PT... but then again... you have to pass NR in order to get to that point...

tough it out and pass NR

 

[8jimi8]

What was this "out of order" mistake?

And sounds like your school is setting you up for failure... I have seen classes where the students pass because of the instruction and classes where the students pass in spite of the instruction... The latter, however, does not produce EMTs worth anything...

yes example please

 

[bunkie]

It wasn't a "huge" mistake, but she was teaching us in the field and not what we were supposed to be learning? He said it wasn't "wrong" but he wanted us to do it the other way around.

In the focused H&P it was set up as
SAMPLE
V/S
Head to Toe

So after my sample when I started doing vitals, I got called as doing it wrong. And I argued with him. Then he saw the "error" and said it should be

SAMPLE
Head to Toe
V/S

And that as it wasn't critical criteria I wouldn't be marked off for it. But she was following her own teachings and not the way we're supposed to be learning. It can get extremely confusing with ten different people telling you ten different things. Which is why I'm glad I brought it up and had something to make a point of my statement last night.

 

[rescue99]

It wasn't a "huge" mistake, but she was teaching us in the field and not what we were supposed to be learning? He said it wasn't "wrong" but he wanted us to do it the other way around.

In the focused H&P it was set up as
SAMPLE
V/S
Head to Toe

So after my sample when I started doing vitals, I got called as doing it wrong. And I argued with him. Then he saw the "error" and said it should be

SAMPLE
Head to Toe
V/S

And that as it wasn't critical criteria I wouldn't be marked off for it. But she was following her own teachings and not the way we're supposed to be learning. It can get extremely confusing with ten different people telling you ten different things. Which is why I'm glad I brought it up and had something to make a point of my statement last night.

The way in which a class learns skills is best when demonstrated by the instructor for everyone (including the proctors) to see. Proctors and assistants should only be teaching the way the instructor of record wants taught. That way, only one person in charge, only one person to confuse students. Allowing proctors to be themselves and use their own teaching style to a point is a good thing typically. Exposure to variety is always good.

My thought is this person has no teaching experience and / or is lacking core knowledge to begin with. Either way, she should not be left unsupervised until she's been properly mentored. This is a lead instructor problem demonstrating a lack of over-site in the classroom. Hopefully it's all fixed