Lenior Community College EMS-Paramedic hybird program

[Rgraham92]

Hey all. New member here.

I'm in southeast Georgia and am currently an AEMT working full-time for the local county 911. Ive been trying to weigh my options for paramedic and I'm very interested in the lenoir program. There is a local program but the instructor does nothing but run through generic slides from the book that I get on my own ( went through his EMT and AEMT ). I've looked at starting in may 2016 and I've already gotten ahold of the clinical coordinator with lenoir to see about getting a contract at the local er and my own workplace so hopefully that won't be an issue. My question is this.

As a serious, self driven and highly motivated student with a very good support base here locally to draw on and practice skills with, is the lenoir program any good? As I said, I have an amazing support base out here of people who will help me with skills outside of the site visits

 

[Rgraham92]

Also, I will be reading and taking notes out of the newest Nancy Caroline medic book. I'll have it read at least once before I start. So please consider that in your answer. Thank you very, very much.

 

[Mookie]

Latest. LCC was able to secure a contract with my local hospital. Between Lenoir Memorial and local, I was able to complete all my hours in about a 5 weeks. I'm currently waiting on the school to verify with National Registry. Once done, I'll go test NR. I have a better understanding of the red tape involved on securing contracts with hospitals. I would recommend the program. I would recommend you read back over my comments. Know your clinical locations before you make the commitment.

 

[Mookie]

I tested NR today and passed. LCC helped me acquire the knowledge that I needed. It's a great alternative to the brick and mortar.

 

[Rgraham92]

Alrighty, awesome. And congrats! They're close to getting an agreement with my local ems and hospital with very little issue. And there's a much bigger hospital an hour away I can use to get some of the more minute clinical requirements. I'm looking forward to starting in may I think. Thanks for the information

 

[Mookie]

Another class mate tested yesterday and passed. 3 for 3 on cognitive exam for our class.

 

[purple butterfly]

Another class mate tested yesterday and passed. 3 for 3 on cognitive exam for our class.

Congrats! I'm glad to hear they are preparing us well.

 

[GaHillBilly]

I'm writing to warn others about LCC, so that hopefully they can avoid the problems my son encountered during his attempt to complete paramedic training through LCC in 2016. (I'm posting instead of him, to avoid possible issues.)

Some problems were expected, and he was ready for them

• the program is intensive
• you must be able to self-study
• travel and local time can be a pain.
• paramedic programs have a high drop-out rate

All of this was reasonable, in exchange for an inexpensive program that is partially online, and we have no complaints about that.

But . . .

For whatever reason, the clinical co-ordinator in several programs he knows of has been a real loser -- disorganized, unavailable and generally incompetent at the job. We could speculate why, but we really don't know. What we know for sure is that effective clinical co-ordination is ESSENTIAL for an online program, and LCC does NOT provide it.

He checked ahead of time, and was assured that local clinical hours would be possible. WRONG!

Five months into the program, having the highest test results in the class, he had less than 20 clinical hours. He was told repeatedly, "We'll have this worked out shortly." They did not.

Some co-workers, going to a different LCC evolution, and having seen problems with clinical training in other programs, took off a month so they could do their clinicals locally. Nope. LCC screwed that up, too, though not irredeemably. They DID graduate, and did pass the NREMT medic exam, though it was delayed due to the LCC problems.

And . . .

The testing is online by Pearson (I think). Apparently, it is supposed to work with several paramedic texts and programs. But as many medics know, there's more than one 'right answer' to some pretty significant questions, and these differences show up in different texts. Pearson -- or at least the version used by LCC -- had adopted the "we'll pick the right answer, and go with that' approach . . . EVEN IF THE PEARSON ANSWERS DOES NOT MATCH WHAT WAS TAUGHT IN CLASS OR IN THE LCC-SELECTED TEXTS!

In several cases, after losing 10 or more points on a test, he was able to locate the preferred right answer in buddy's old text . . . but it was NOT what was in his text, or in what he reported from class.

Yet, his instructor claimed to be unaware of the problem, when shown evidence of it.

It gets worse.

EMS is risky. Things can and do go wrong.

If you work, many employers have a variety of fair to good insurance coverages. When you do clinicals, if there's a problem, there is SUPPOSED to be coverage through the school.

I can't go into details, since they would be personally identifiable, but the bottom line is, if you are on a LCC clinical, and something goes wrong . . . you are ON YOUR OWN.

LCC will do nothing, except make excuses, delay, and shift the blame. As far as we can determine, if there is a problem, LCC will cover NOTHING; not hospital expenses, not lost time, NOTHING!

Bottom line?

Paramedic programs typically have a high drop out rate. 50% is not uncommon. LCC is apparently closer to 90% . . . and there reasons for this. The classroom instruction was acceptable, as were the fellow students. The testing was problematic. But the clinical coordination was a DISASTER.

My son ended up losing over $6,000 (on all associated expenses), almost solely because LCC couldn't be bothered to

• EITHER work out clinical hours properly,
• OR inform students -- in ADVANCE -- that all clinical hours must be completed near LCC, and CAN NOT be completed in one continuous period.

Caveat emptor!

 

[DrParasite]

@GaHillBilly ,has your son spoke to the program director about these issues? I'm sure there is a chain of command, which would be a more appropriate way to air your complaints, and have them redressed, vs venting 3rd party information on based on what you are having told to you.

Start at the instructor (which it seems like you did), then go to the coordinator, and if he won't speak to you, ask to schedule a meeting with the program director. If that doesn't go anywhere, you can contact the state office of EMS

 

[GaHillBilly]

If I wanted to get personal, I would have noted that

• yes, he spoke to his instructor and also the person she suggested he speak with
• he continued in the program for 6 weeks AFTER it became clear that the clinical problems were insurmountable within the term period so he could see if there was some other resolution.
• he asked for a refund -- since their failures created the problems -- which was denied

My intention, however, was to warn prospective LCC students about "gotchas" in the program that they will otherwise discover only after it's too late to change their minds.

I doubt that any EMT / Medic program is perfect, or even nearly perfect. But there are some BIG reasons why LCC has a drop out rate that reportedly approaches 90% . . . and the reasons are NOT that the program is unusually challenging academically. And would be EMTs and Medics deserve to have access to those warning BEFORE it's too late!

 

[DrParasite]

Assuming your complaints are 100% accurate, I think you (or your son) should contact the State office of EMS.

Here is the person you should contact
Amerson, Robert 252-355-9026 ext. 203 robert.amerson@dhhs.nc.gov Eastern Regional Education Specialist

https://www2.ncdhhs.gov/dhsr/EMS/staff.htm

A phone call or an email (because the specialists are rarely in their office) with all the details should suffice.

Warning people is one thing, but if you really want to get something changed, might want to speak to someone who can do something about it.

 

[GaHillBilly]

I haven't specifically asked, but I think I can safely say that he has no interest at all getting "something changed". Getting his money back would be nice, but given that over half of his costs were not paid to LCC, the chance that he can get more money back by fussing with them, then he could earn in equiv hours here locally is . . . close to zilch.

And because of his experiences, and those of some others in his EMS company, LCC is now on the "Don't even THINK about going there" for your medic training both inside his moderately sized company, and in some other local area services.

My only interest here is in warning other would be medics to check LCC out VERY carefully, before signing up.

In particular, it would be prudent for any out-of-state 'online' paramedic student to verify . . . and then verify again . . . and then make sure . . . that a workable plan for clinical hours has been established, formally approved, and verified. At LCC (or anywhere else) it is unwise to trust any program staff statement to the effect that, "We'll be able to work it out as we go along."

I'll offer one correction: I found the site reporting "graduation rates", and the LCC rate is higher (@ 35%) than I remembered. I don't know if my memory was wrong, or if they've updated, but here's the link

• www DOT bestcolleges DOT com SLASH features SLASH best-online-emt-programs SLASH
• goo DOT gl SLASH DRGxWV -- [shorter version!]

Sorry, but I'm not allowed to post live links!

 

[DrParasite]

You know, if neither you nor he are interested in making the situation better, than you are whining and probably lying about everything you are saying. You want to complain, go complain somewhere else. There are always two sides to every story, and I'm thinking that we haven't even heard their side, but because you just want to bash the name and reputation of an actual institution, without providing any actual evidence to support your accusations, I am starting to think you are lying about the entire situation.

They are the second best program according to the website you linked, and having a low graduation rate might just mean that 65% of the students don't take it seriously, and your son was one of them. In which case, we, the EMS field, are better off without them.

I would urge every potential paramedic student to ignore everything you said about LCC; If things were really as bad as you claim, than I would think you would want to go to the governing body, and get the program shut down, because if what you said is true, they aren't doing anything in the best interests of their students. But then again, you won't even go to someone who can fix the issue, you would rather spew a line of bull about a school that has ran EMS programs successfully for years (and yes, I know people who went through their paramedic and EMT/I program, they didn't say it was perfect, but it wasn't that much of a train-wreck). I am not saying it's perfect, but it's not too bad.

If you and your son are too lazy to make a phone call, or send an email, or are too apathetic to actually want to do anything to prevent the issues from reoccurring, than I am going to go with my gut, which tells me your son didn't take it seriously, or did something wrong to get him booted, and now your refusing to take responsibility and blaming the institution.

If there is a legit problem, then you should call the state (I even provided the name, phone number and email address) of the person you need to speak to. He isn't going back there, so you have nothing to lose (not like they will prevent him from getting his medic cert, or will get him fired from his job), and it can only benefit future students. And an investigation will either confirm your allegations for reveal that you are incorrect, the latter of which is where I think the truth resides based on your refusal to even notify the proper authorities.

In either case, I'm done responding to you.

 

[GaHillBilly]

"In either case, I'm done responding to you"

I doubt it. I haven't checked your other posts, but your comments here read like they belong to one of those guys who ALWAYS has to have the last word. We'll see.

In any case, I recommended that prospective LCC students check things out for themselves, and confirm whether what I've written is accurate. You seem to be suggesting, instead, that prospective students ignore all cautions and sign up without investigating. Good job!

Your posts make me wonder what connection you have to LCC or the official NC EMS community; you seem pretty defensive, especially since you have ignored relevant bits of my prior posts answered your objections. Running so quickly to insults without evidence makes me wonder if YOU are that incompetent at LCC who promised to arrange local clinical coordination, and then repeatedly failed to keep those promises! If so, it would make sense that you'd not want anyone to follow my advice and VERIFY clinical coordination before signing up!

• You say "he has nothing to lose". Au contraire! Maybe you have endless free time, and can engage in long pointless conversations with disinterested state officials, without interfering with any other part of your life. But that's not true of my son working 3x 16 hour shifts per week on a 911 truck, as well as a variety of other obligations. Nevertheless I congratulate you on arranging a lifestyle with so much free time, but would encourage you to have a bit of sympathy for those with more obligations and less time to waste!.
  
  
• Further, you ignore the fact that HE DID CALL (#30 above), repeatedly. He has extensive documentation of both the phone calls and the emails. His lead instructor was sympathetic but indicated that there was nothing that they could do. My son considered pursuing legal remedies, but was advised that, while he could likely win damages, the cost of winning would be greater than the settlement!
  

The simple fact is LCC sucked for him, because they didn't deliver on promised clinical arrangements. They sucked for other students from his company, who enrolled in the session after his. And because of those experiences, the word is out both in his company, and somewhat in our local area, to avoid LCC like the plague. As a result, what might have been a steady stream of students from this area will instead be ZILCH.

Of course, it's entirely possible that LCC will replace their clinical coordinator with someone competent and conscientious, and resolve the other problems. That's why I recommend that prospective LCC students CHECK THINGS OUT, rather than RULING LCC OUT altogether!

 

[GaHillBilly]

UPDATE!

Just found out that a neighboring state (to LCC's N. Carolina) has BANNED all LCC students from participating in clinicals at any of that state's emergency providers. Apparently, this has been true for some time, but had not been consistently enforced, allowing some LCC students to complete in-state clinials. But the ban has apparently now been reiterated and publicized, AND is now being enforced state-wide.

Given my son's problems with LCC, it would be easy to speculate that LCC brought this on themselves, but the fact is, I have no information about WHY the ban exists; for all I know, it may be political or even personal. However, for prospective LCC students from that state, it simply doesn't matter. If you absolutely cannot arrange clinicals in your state, graduating from LCC is going to be considerably harder!

Obviously, this is the sort of thing that can change with time, but if you are a prospective LCC student from a neighboring state, it is even MORE important that you verify that clinicals won't be a problem BEFORE you enroll.

 

[luke_31]

UPDATE!

Just found out that a neighboring state (to LCC's N. Carolina) has BANNED all LCC students from participating in clinicals at any of that state's emergency providers. Apparently, this has been true for some time, but had not been consistently enforced, allowing some LCC students to complete in-state clinials. But the ban has apparently now been reiterated and publicized, AND is now being enforced state-wide.

Given my son's problems with LCC, it would be easy to speculate that LCC brought this on themselves, but the fact is, I have no information about WHY the ban exists; for all I know, it may be political or even personal. However, for prospective LCC students from that state, it simply doesn't matter. If you absolutely cannot arrange clinicals in your state, graduating from LCC is going to be considerably harder!

Obviously, this is the sort of thing that can change with time, but if you are a prospective LCC student from a neighboring state, it is even MORE important that you verify that clinicals won't be a problem BEFORE you enroll.

I hate to disappoint you but Excelsior a online nursing program also has similar issues, yet is just as reputable as LCC. Sounds like your son had a bad experience but doesn't discount the program for others.

 

[wanderingmedic]

UPDATE!

Just found out that a neighboring state (to LCC's N. Carolina) has BANNED all LCC students from participating in clinicals at any of that state's emergency providers. Apparently, this has been true for some time, but had not been consistently enforced, allowing some LCC students to complete in-state clinials. But the ban has apparently now been reiterated and publicized, AND is now being enforced state-wide.

I beleive this is actually a CoAEMSP requirement. Since all medic programs must be accredited for their students to be eligible for the NREMT, it makes sense this requirement is now being enforced. CoAEMSP requires a physician medical director for each of the states the program allows students to do clinical rotations in. I know PERCOM had similar rule put in place the last time they were accredited by CoAEMSP. PERCOM still allowed their students to do out of state clinicals, they were just required to find their own medical director.

Disclaimer: I could be wrong about this. I actually have not read the CoAEMSP requirements, so this is third hand knowledge.

 

[wanderingmedic]

I just did a quick google search and found the CoAEMSP requirement for a Medical Director in the state the program is taught in:

"The Medical Director must:

1) be a physician currently licensed and authorized to practice in the location of the program, with experience and current knowledge of emergency care of acutely ill and injured patients,

2) have adequate training or experience in the delivery of out-of-hospital emergency care, including the proper care and transport of patients, medical direction, and quality improvement in out-of-hospital care,

3) be an active member of the local medical community and participate in professional activities related to out-of-hospital care,

4) be knowledgeable about the education of the Emergency Medical Services Professions, including professional, legislative and regulatory issues regarding the education of the Emergency Medical Services Professions."

 

[NomadicMedic]

I just did a quick google search and found the CoAEMSP requirement for a Medical Director in the state the program is taught in:

"The Medical Director must:

1) be a physician currently licensed and authorized to practice in the location of the program, with experience and current knowledge of emergency care of acutely ill and injured patients,

2) have adequate training or experience in the delivery of out-of-hospital emergency care, including the proper care and transport of patients, medical direction, and quality improvement in out-of-hospital care,

3) be an active member of the local medical community and participate in professional activities related to out-of-hospital care,

4) be knowledgeable about the education of the Emergency Medical Services Professions, including professional, legislative and regulatory issues regarding the education of the Emergency Medical Services Professions."

This is correct. My educational program (located in Georgia) no longer allows students to perform clinical rotations in neighboring South Carolina.

 

[GaHillBilly]

I hate to disappoint you but Excelsior a online nursing program also has similar issues . . . .

I beleive this is actually a CoAEMSP requirement. . . . CoAEMSP requires a physician medical director for each of the states the program allows students to do clinical rotations in.

My problem is not with those facts; rather my problem is that my son discovered (in his particular instance) these facts, AFTER THE FACT, and in spite of repeated assurances from Lenoir Community College that there was no problem. Instead of being informed of the issues, and offered a chance to withdraw, receive a refund, and stop wasting time and money on travel to LCC, my son received repeated assurances that 'we'll work it out" . . . right up to the point where it was impossible for him to complete the program

LCC -- and ANY other affected program -- should assiduously inform ALL prospective students of this requirement BEFORE $$'s change hands. They should be ESPECIALLY careful to do so before enrolling out of state students.

Responsibility for the requirements are on the states, or whoever sets them. But the failure to inform is all on LCC. If the requirements you describe were in force when my son enrolled, LCC was either incompetently negligent or else engaging in fraudulent misrepresentation! And such behavior is NOT consistent with claims that LCC is a "reputable program".

Frankly, it sounds like those rules make it unlikely that ANY "online" program can legitimately offer training to out of state students. And THAT is something all would-be students of online programs should be warned about if they post here!